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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 14:22:02 -0400
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From: "Mark Sletten" <mwsletten@gmail.com>
References: <3E1C96B95693C640B0AC2F59D2500F3B09F812@crmtest.arilabs.net>
In-Reply-To: <3E1C96B95693C640B0AC2F59D2500F3B09F812@crmtest.arilabs.net>
Subject: RE: Transfer Of Ownership
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Kevin,

I am well, and thanks for asking!

The reason you've never been charged for technical support is because =
both
you and Lancair agreed its cost was included in the purchase price of =
the
kit.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about Lancair having to 'start over' =
with a
new owner. Are you suggesting if the kit is sold while still under
construction the new owner will require MORE support than the original =
owner
for the remainder of the build process? That the purchaser of a =
completed
aircraft will need more support than the original owner? I'm not sure I
agree with that assessment.

Comparisons to software support are apples to oranges. I've purchased
software support in my line of work as well. That support was purchased =
with
a contract specifically outlining the quality and quantity of support I =
was
purchasing. Even the most basic of software support packages, however, =
the
owner received constant upgrades to the software. That's because =
software is
never "done;" it is always under development.

Lancair sold a kit with an understanding that support was included in =
the
price. No one ever told me if I sold the kit its new owner would have =
cough
up $300 bucks to continue that support. Did they tell you? Further, a =
kit is
sold as is; as far as I know Lancair does not provide any product =
upgrades
as part of its technical support.

Ultimately, this isn't so much about support as it is about availability =
of
parts. Let's face it, I've gotten much more support during my build =
process
from other builders than I have from Lancair. I'm not minimizing the =
support
they have provided; they've answered my calls promptly and helped me =
figure
out problems that I would otherwise have been shooting in the dark to =
solve
myself. But I think a new owner could manage just fine with no technical
support from Lancair Inc. Not so much if they can't get parts, however.

Administrative overhead for tracking owner data is a red herring -- the
costs are insignificant. A new owner calls, emails or writes, identifies =
the
kit and provides contact information. The person taking the
call/email/letter makes a new entry in the database and deletes the old =
one.
The whole process can't take more than five minutes.

A bad business environment isn't an excuse. ALL businesses are =
struggling to
make ends meet these days; they all must find creative ways to meet =
payroll.
This particular method that Lancair Inc has chosen might help in a =
miniscule
way with cash flow in the short term, but alienating customers can't be =
good
for the long term.

You repeated your belief that Lancair Inc's action will somehow help it
avoid lawsuits. How does charging new owners $300 help Lancair Inc avoid
lawsuits? If anything, it discourages new owners from seeking help from
Lancair thereby increasing the chances of a problem that might have been
avoided if Lancair Inc had been involved.

You keep mentioning your opinion that $300 is a small sum. While I agree
with you that it is not that much money in the grand scheme of things, I
believe for the vast majority of people it is the principle, not the =
amount.
For me, that is why I am confused and frustrated. Why would Lancair Inc =
be
willing to give up so much good will and trust with its customers over =
such
a paltry sum?

Regards,
=20
Mark Sletten


-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Stallard [mailto:Kevin@arilabs.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Mark Sletten; lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE: Transfer Of Ownership

Hi Mark,

I hope you are well.

I have never been charged for technical support by Lancair.  I would =
think
that the new owner of a Lancair where the fee was duly paid would also =
be
able to call and get direction and advice from a qualified individual.

I'm just speculating, but I would guess that the previous owner/builder =
may
have used up a fair amount of time with a rep/support person during the
build of his plane.  I think it is reasonable to conclude the new owner =
may
have support needs.  Why should Lancair be expected to start over with =
the
new guy?  For this small fee of $300, doesn't Lancair then treat the new
owner as the original purchaser?  I think that is a pretty good deal.  =
They
have payroll to meet.  They need to find ways to keep talent around.=20

For the development software I use in my business, I pay north of $4,000 =
per
year for support.  I think $300 for lifetime ability to call someone up =
over
there and get some direction is a pretty good deal. =20

Lastly, there is administrative overhead for tracking all this =
information.
This goes a long ways to help pay for that.  This provides Lancair with
necessary documentation to defend themselves if the new guy/gal screws =
up. =20

I think it is all very reasonable for Lancair to do this.  Until we get =
a
handle on lawsuit abuse as a country and a people, consumers will =
continue
to pay for it (that means us).

I think this also gives insurance companies a feeling that Lancair is =
being
responsible in helping to reduce risk.  This will continue to keep them
engaged, we need this. =20

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten@gmail.com]
Sent: June 02, 2010 07:19
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Cc: Kevin Stallard
Subject: RE: Transfer Of Ownership

Kevin,

It's true that Lancair Inc holds liability if a Lancair crashes; it is =
true
its parts department likely benefits its customers as much as it =
benefits
Lancair; it is true we should applaud Lancair Inc's effort to keep =
Lancair
aircraft safe and insurance companies engaged with our small segment of =
the
market.

The questions on my mind are: How is Lancair Inc's liability reduced by =
a
$300 ownership transfer fee? Doesn't Lancair already charge a =
considerable
fee for aircraft inspections? As far as parts, isn't it in Lancair Inc's
interest as regards liability to ensure ALL Lancair owners are using
appropriate parts to maintain their aircraft? Likewise, keeping insurers
engaged benefits Lancair Inc as much as its customers; who will purchase =
a
kit for which insurance is unavailable?

The bottom line is Lancair makes money from parts sales, it makes money =
from
kit sales and it makes money from aircraft inspections, none of which
customers complain about because they get value for their money.

But what value is added for a $300 ownership transfer fee?

In my view, since new owners will pay for everything else anyway, the =
only
value a new owner gains is access to Lancair Inc's technical support. It
seems to me Lancair Inc would seek ways to encourage new owners to
correspond with the factory if it were truly interested in keeping =
builders
and pilots safe, with the ultimate goal of limiting its liability. =
Instead,
it creates an incentive for new owners to avoid the experts at the =
factory.
This seems counterintuitive.

Comparing the relatively small sum to the initial acquisition cost of an
average used Lancair merely camouflages the inconvenient fact that =
Lancair
is providing nothing of value to a new owner for the $300 owner transfer =
fee
it now says is mandatory.


Mark Sletten


-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Stallard [mailto:Kevin@arilabs.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:56 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Transfer Of Ownership

Folks,

I'm going to give a dissenting opinion on this whole thing.

When a Lancair goes down and people die, Lancair gets hit with lawsuits.
Yes, it is true they aren't considered the manufacturer of these =
airplanes,
but do you think that stops lawyers from going after them?  You know how
informed juries are, considering that there was a case where a woman =
gets a
big payout for spilling coffee on herself.  It would be na=EFve to think =
that
just because the FAA doesn't consider Lancair a manufacturer, doesn't =
mean
that they won't get assigned some blame by some misinformed jury.=20

Secondly, I've done some price comparisons between the parts that =
Lancair
sells and other outfits, there isn't a huge difference.  They certainly
charge more in many cases.  However, considering the volume of planes
Lancair sells, I have a hard time thinking that their parts department =
is a
significant contributor to their bottom line.

I could be wrong, and I don't have an inside view, but it appears as =
though
Lancair has their parts department more as a service than as anything =
that
is really helping the company pay their bills.  It's helpful to go =
somewhere
to get stuff that fits my airplane.  There are some items I just can't =
get
anywhere else.

Considering the cost of our airplanes, the $300 hardly amounts to a hill =
of
beans and I see it as more a formality to help protect Lancair's =
interests.
I don't see it as a problem.  It also gives the insurance companies some
insight into the Lancairs they are insuring.  I look at this as a =
positive
thing that Lancair is doing. =20

Scarcity of insurers will certainly drive up our costs.  I glad they are
doing things to help keep insurance companies engaged.  It helps in the =
long
run.

Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =
Leon
Smith
Sent: June 01, 2010 10:22
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Transfer Of Ownership

Joe B. is making a BIG mistake with this policy.  Rest assured that in =
the
future, I will purchase from Lancair only when absolutely necessary.

Leon S.

-----Original Message-----
From: Art Bertolina [mailto:artbertolina@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 7:51 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Transfer Of Ownership

It would seem more important than ever to develop a new source for these
services. Trying to force your customers to deal with you is a desperate
business decision and one bound to fail. We as Lancair owners need to
strengthen LOBO Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom McNerney" <dudewanarace@yahoo.com>
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:09 PM
Subject: [LML] Transfer Of Ownership


Rob pointed out in a previous post that Lancair has changed their =
transfer
of ownership policy. I thought it would be a good idea to post the =
paragraph

from that form that regards to their "Transfer Policy". Interesting =
read.. I

guess anybody who buys a used Lancair, of any type, has to have the
"Insurance inspection team" check said aircraft.

TRANSFER POLICY
L.I.I. requires that all Lancair International Inc. and Neico Aviation =
Inc.=20
aircraft and /or uncompleted kits which are sold, transferred, bartered,
donated or in anyway given to any other person, corporation or other =
legal
entity other than the original purchaser, shall first pay a $300.00 =
transfer

fee to Lancair International Inc. and agree to sign and return to =
Lancair
International Inc. this Resale Agreement prior to having said aircraft
registered with L.I.I. and prior to the new owner obtaining technical
support, access to Kit Components Inc. for parts purchases, access to =
our
builder's site on the web or notification of any service bulletins. =
Further,

the new purchaser of a flying Lancair aircraft or an uncompleted kit, =
and
prior to the aircraft being transferred, must agree to have either =
flying
Lancair aircraft or upon first flight of an uncompleted kit inspected by =
our

insurance inspection team. The new purchaser must  also agree to =
participate
in any Lancair endorsed training program. Only upon receipt of this
agreement and payment of the $300.00 transfer fee, will

L.I.I. transfer and update files so that service support can be =
continued.

Tom McNerney
www.N54SG.com

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