X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 09:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-vw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.212.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4331005 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 May 2010 17:11:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.52; envelope-from=abegaskins@gmail.com Received: by vws18 with SMTP id 18so2014204vws.25 for ; Sun, 30 May 2010 14:11:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=lMNLCovzdObenXqg7LR/8GLl01b9ppfkfmSQvW+XN9p5YsEvbTQxYeXVpw1wMcP8g7 fnjye5W5NY4wZcHY2dEOdP66t8kJyWSpVstXonzIzYVPIXxSwf6hHstvE/ZMIJKCq5aL P/xHaS4i986MmiNFNdNR5in1agfXQ2kx3DXfA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.107.138 with SMTP id b10mr1241286qap.93.1275253874510; Sun, 30 May 2010 14:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Sender: abegaskins@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.19.196 with HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2010 14:11:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <006101cb002d$d66199c0$8324cd40$@com> References: <006101cb002d$d66199c0$8324cd40$@com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:11:14 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: blx7F02IP2ZS9-aTowXqw1DTy6g X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed Control From: Abe Gaskins X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f99e3d5304c020487d62e75 --00c09f99e3d5304c020487d62e75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I sent this email to Steve and Wolfgang off-line with names. I delete= d the vendor name and post this response to the request. I will respond to each email if requested. Steve and Wolfgang, It was xxxxxxx xxxxxxx. I sent the autotrim module back and they repaired it with no questions and no problems. I never knew why it ran off, I just know that they repaired it and sent it back. FYI, I had another problem with the vertical servo which went back and forth for about a year and a half. The auto pilot would not hold altitude. I played with parameters and pin-out for almost two years. Each time I dealt with a technician, I felt they poo-pooed my concerns and got the sens= e that they viewed my issues as psychosomatic. On multiple occasions I sent components back and was told that nothing was wrong. Finally I pulled everything out and sent it to them. All servos, autotrim unit, the main uni= t and requested a bench test and asked them to find the problem. They told me that there would be a $50 dollar charge for diagnosis if the problem was no= t a factory problem. They diagnosed the issue and finally repaired the vertical servo. They were reticent to tell me details. Finally I told them= , look, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not trying to build a case against you. I told'em I'm a Mechanical Engineer and I just want to know the root cause. Finally they told me that there is a spring inside the vertical servo that was not calibrated and/or installed correctly. They fixed the issue at no charge and I've been flying wonderfully ever since. After the repair, my comfort level with the plane went through the roof. Even with all the problems I am pleased with xxxxxxx. Like I said, I'm a mechanical engineer and have been involved in a lot of new equipment installations, and I've never had a new install without problems and most o= f the time most technicians give a "quick" diagnosis if they've never seen a scenario. I think my case was a rare one and that's why, in my mind, I ha= d soooo much trouble. The issue would exacerbate when the Garmin 430W would go into approach mode= . When that happened the vertical steering would get extremely unstable. Oscillations about the set point would amplify on the Garmin 430W. When th= e system was switched to the Chelton, the damn plane would nose dive to the ground. Hope this helps. if you have any other questions, give me a shout. Steve, you were gracious enough to phone me two years ago about oil on the belly and I really appreciated that. Oh yea, that issue turned out the be a cracked oil cooler that got progressively worse until finally it failed catastrophically--I landed with 3 quarts of oil in the sump--but that's anouther story. Abe Gaskins MGM Industries Office 800-476-5584 Direct line 615-265-2046 Cell 615-642-2310 www.mgmindustries.com http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmindustriesinc On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Steve Colwell wrote= : > Abe, > > > > I would like to know what component failed. Manufacturers don=92t like t= he > bad press or the threat of liability but we are potentially the most inju= red > parties. Please reconsider posting the failed component on LML for other= s > benefit. I will not post your response to me on the internet. > > > > Steve > > > > *From:* Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of > *Abe Gaskins > *Sent:* Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:00 PM > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed Control > > > > Steve, > > > > It was a faultly unit from the factory. I hesitate the name the factory o= n > the list because it could cause tempers to flair and I would like to avoi= d > that. I will respond directly or by phone. I sent the unit back and it = was > sent back no charge and I have not had a problem since. > > > > My autotrim did not have a disconnect switch so the only was to disconnec= t > the autotrim was to disconnect the autopilot or pull the breaker on the > autopilot. I would advise to be able to have a discrete switch to disabl= e > the autotrim and not the autopilot. If I was IMC when my event happened > without a means to disable the autotrim, I wonder what the result would h= ave > been. > > > > abe > > > Abe Gaskins > MGM Industries > Office 800-476-5584 > Direct line 615-265-2046 > Cell 615-642-2310 > www.mgmindustries.com > http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmindustriesinc > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Steve Colwell > wrote: > > Abe, > > > > What caused the Trim Runaway? > > > > Steve Colwell > > > > > > I had an incident one time. I had a run away condition while at cruise > altitude and I really had to fight the forces. I was not as adept to the > system as Josh, but did manage to control the plane. I would like to > mention when I prepared for landing I obviously had to slow the plane dow= n. > When I pulled the power back the stick forces got much more manageable. = On > the ground, or in hindsight, you'd say:"gesh, dumby--that's obvious." > Thinking isn't quite so fluid when it's happening. So a thought, if it > happens and you forget to pull the breaker, put pulling the power back in > the ditty bag of tricks. > > > > abe > > > > > > --00c09f99e3d5304c020487d62e75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All, I sent this email to Steve and Wolfgang off-line with names. =A0I= deleted the vendor name and post this response to the request. =A0I will r= espond to each email if requested.=A0

Steve and Wolfgan= g,

It was xxxxxxx xxxxxxx. =A0I sent the autotrim module back a= nd they repaired it with no questions and no problems. I never knew why it = ran off, I just know that they repaired it and sent it back.

FYI, =A0I had another problem with the vertical servo which went= back and forth for about a year and a half. =A0The auto pilot would not ho= ld altitude. I played with parameters and pin-out for almost two years. =A0= Each time I dealt with a technician, I felt they poo-pooed my concerns and = got the sense that they viewed my issues as=A0psychosomatic. On multiple oc= casions I sent components back and was told that nothing was wrong. =A0Fina= lly I pulled everything out and sent it to them. All servos, autotrim unit,= the main unit and requested a bench test and asked them to find the proble= m. They told me that there would be a $50 dollar charge for diagnosis if th= e problem was not a factory problem. =A0They=A0diagnosed=A0the issue and fi= nally repaired the vertical servo. =A0They were reticent to tell me details= . Finally I told them, look, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not trying to= build a case against you. I told'em I'm a Mechanical Engineer and = I just want to know the root cause. =A0Finally they told me that there is a= spring inside the vertical servo that was not calibrated and/or installed = correctly. =A0They fixed the issue at no charge and I've been flying wo= nderfully ever since. =A0

After the repair, my comfort level with the plane went = through the roof. Even with all the problems I am pleased with xxxxxxx. =A0= Like I said, I'm a mechanical engineer and have been involved in a lot = of new equipment installations, and I've never had a new install withou= t problems and most of the time most=A0technicians=A0give a "quick&quo= t; diagnosis if they've never seen a=A0scenario. I think my case was a = rare one and that's why, in my mind, I had soooo much trouble.

The issue would exacerbate when the Garmin 430W would g= o into approach mode. When that happened the vertical steering would get ex= tremely unstable. Oscillations about the set point would amplify on the Gar= min 430W. =A0When the system was switched to the Chelton, the damn plane wo= uld nose dive to the ground.=A0

Hope this helps. if you have any other questions, give = me a shout. =A0Steve, you were gracious enough to phone me two years ago ab= out oil on the belly and I really appreciated that. =A0
Oh yea, t= hat issue turned out the be a cracked oil cooler that got progressively wor= se until finally it failed=A0catastrophically--I landed with 3 quarts of oi= l in the sump--but that's anouther story.=A0
Abe Gaskins
MGM Industries
Office 800-476-5584
Direct line 615-265= -2046
Cell 615-642-2310
www.= mgmindustries.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmindustriesinc


On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Steve C= olwell <mcmess= 1919@yahoo.com> wrote:

Abe,<= /span>

=A0

I wou= ld like to know what component failed.=A0 Manufacturers don=92t like the bad press or the threat of liability but we are potentiall= y the most injured parties.=A0 Please reconsider posting the failed component on LML for others benefit.=A0 I will not post your response to me on the internet.

=A0

Steve=

=A0

From:= Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml= @lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Abe Gaskins
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:00 PM
To: lml@l= ancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed Control

=A0

Steve,

=A0

It was a faultly unit from the factory. I hesitate t= he name the factory on the list because it could cause tempers to flair and I would like to avoid that.=A0 I will respond directly or by phone.=A0 I sent the unit back and it was sent back no charge and I have not had a problem since.=A0

=A0

My autotrim did not have a disconnect switch so the = only was to disconnect the autotrim was to disconnect the autopilot or pull the brea= ker on the autopilot.=A0 I would advise to be able to have a discrete switch to disable the autotrim and not the autopilot.=A0 If I was IMC when my event happened without a means to disable the autotrim, I wonder what the result would have been.

=A0

abe


Abe Gaskins
MGM Industries
Office 800-476-5584
Direct line 615-265-2046
Cell 615-642-2310
www.mgmindustrie= s.com
= http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmindustriesinc

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Steve Colwell <= mcmess1919@yahoo.= com> wrote:

Abe,<= /span>

=A0

What = caused the Trim Runaway?

=A0

Steve= Colwell

=A0

=A0

I had an incident one time. =A0I had =A0a run away condition while at cruise altitude and I really had to fight the forces. =A0I was not as adept to the system as Josh, but did manage to control the plane. =A0I would like to mention when I prepared for landing I obviously had to slow the plane do= wn. When I pulled the power back the stick forces got much more=A0manageable. =A0On the ground, or in hindsight, you'd say:"gesh, dumby--that= 9;s obvious." Thinking isn't quite so fluid when it's happening. = =A0So a =A0thought, if it happens and you forget to pull the breaker, put pulling the power back in the ditty bag of tricks.

=A0

abe


=A0

=A0


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