X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 09:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4331087 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 May 2010 18:41:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.1; envelope-from=rpharis@verizon.net Received: from WS1 ([unknown] [71.116.74.103]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0L39008DS8BTD200@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 May 2010 17:40:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Rod Pharis" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed Control X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:40:40 -0700 X-Original-Message-id: <002401cb0049$21a42810$64ec7830$@net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01CB000E.75455010" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acr//60jZfLJNHlhS72ajv067IUEGQASTAqw This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CB000E.75455010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, In the last sentence in your message below, did you intend to type, REL-2 rather than REL-1 as shown? Rod From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of mikeeasley Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 6:54 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed Control I know this started out as a Legacy trim speed question, so I apologize for the digression. The ES has heavier control forces than a Legacy and the CG range is larger so the elevator trim has to be more powerful. The standard ES elevator trim is set up with a 1.0" travel RAC trim motor. The travel is divided evenly between up and down. ES's need all the up trim, sometimes even a little more with the TSIO or far forward CGs. But after flying my plane for a while I noticed that the LED trim indicator never got much past the middle position in cruise. So that left a bunch of down trim that was never used. A couple ES guys experimented with trying to fly the plane with the trim full down and never got there. So the solution was to eliminate any unused trim. I replaced the 1.0" travel trim motor with the .7". I adjusted the travel to keep all the up trim and remove most of the extra down trim. Now in cruise I'm one LED from the end of the range, perfect. You can imagine Steve's runaway trim situation in an ES with fast and powerful trim. Pulling the CB might not be enough to keep the plane controllable. Slowing the trim speed down is not only a convenience, but a safety issue in a runaway trim scenario. Back to the stuck switch. My Mooneys had a double switch on the yoke for elevator trim. It ends up that's a safety related design. The two switches are in series so if one gets stuck or shorted, you still have control over the trim. Of course if one switch fails open, you lose the electric trim. But Mooneys have a manual trim wheel. I tried to locate those switches but was unsuccessful. A couple posts ago, Steve mentioned the history of the failing RAC relays. Those are the REL-1s. The new REL-2 is better. Another Lancair owner at my airport has had two REL-1 failures in 5 years. After the second failure, he replaced all his REL-1s with REL-2s. I believe the REL-1 failure mode is no trim, not runaway trim. Mike Easley Colorado Springs ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CB000E.75455010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike,

In the last sentence in your message below, did you = intend to type, REL-2 rather than REL-1 as shown?

Rod

From:= Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of mikeeasley
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 6:54 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Trim Tab Servo Speed = Control

I know this started out as a Legacy trim speed question, so I apologize = for the digression.

The ES has heavier control forces than a Legacy and the CG range is larger = so the elevator trim has to be more powerful. The standard ES elevator = trim is set up with a 1.0" travel RAC trim motor. The travel is = divided evenly between up and down. ES's need all the up trim, sometimes = even a little more with the TSIO or far forward CGs. But after flying my plane = for a while I noticed that the LED trim indicator never got much past the = middle position in cruise. So that left a bunch of down trim that was = never used. A couple ES guys experimented with trying to fly the plane = with the trim full down and never got there. So the solution was to = eliminate any unused trim. I replaced the 1.0" travel trim motor with the .7". I adjusted the travel to keep all the up trim and remove = most of the extra down trim. Now in cruise I'm one LED from the end of = the range, perfect.

You can imagine Steve's runaway trim situation in an ES with fast and = powerful trim. Pulling the CB might not be enough to keep the plane controllable. Slowing the trim speed down is not only a = convenience, but a safety issue in a runaway trim scenario.

Back to the stuck switch. My Mooneys had a double switch on the yoke = for elevator trim. It ends up that's a safety related design. = The two switches are in series so if one gets stuck or shorted, you still have = control over the trim. Of course if one switch fails open, you lose the = electric trim. But Mooneys have a manual trim wheel. I tried to = locate those switches but was unsuccessful.

A couple posts ago, Steve mentioned the history of the failing RAC = relays. Those are the REL-1s. The new REL-2 is better. Another = Lancair owner at my airport has had two REL-1 failures in 5 years. After = the second failure, he replaced all his REL-1s with REL-2s. I believe = the REL-1 failure mode is no trim, not runaway trim.

Mike Easley

Colorado Springs

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