X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:38:55 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [69.146.254.20] (HELO crmtest.arilabs.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4127699 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:31:18 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.146.254.20; envelope-from=kevin@arilabs.net Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAF82.38FA0880" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Do I need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 X-Original-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:35:16 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <3E1C96B95693C640B0AC2F59D2500F3B04A140@crmtest.arilabs.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: Do I need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals Thread-Index: Acqvdxl3t+w6hBaaTqeHmunH5gGl+wACuIgg From: "Kevin Stallard" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAF82.38FA0880 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CAAF82.38FA0880" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CAAF82.38FA0880 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_003_01CAAF82.38FA0880" ------_=_NextPart_003_01CAAF82.38FA0880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have to second what Valin says about the springs. I replaced the Lancair floor mounted pedals with the Startflgiht pedals and there was a drastic difference in friction. There is no need to remove the springs on the Starflight pedals. They are very smooth and easy to actuate with all springs attached. =20 Kevin =20 ________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Valin & Allyson Thorn Sent: February 16, 2010 19:11 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Do I need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals =20 =20 I think the gentleman that recommended removing the torsion springs from the co-pilot pedals was basing it on his experience with Lancair's floor mounted adjustable pedals - which have fairly high torque and introduce some friction in their mechanism. Our torsion springs are very low torque and do not introduce noticeable friction in the system with our use of polymer bearings between surfaces. There's just enough torque to take up slack in the cables. =20 =20 So we don't think it's necessary to remove the springs from our mechanism. You certainly can remove, if you'd like, and they will operate just fine. =20 Valin =20 =20 Starflight, Inc. 1702 Emerald Lake Ct, Houston, TX 77062 281.486.4663 http://www.starflight.aero/legacy =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Stan Fields Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:42 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Do I need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals =20 Thanks to all who weighed in on the need for co-pilot rudder pedals. The consensus seems to be that for instruction, insurance or for the occasional right seat driver that dual controls should be installed. So I decided to go with the Starflight rudder pedals because they are somewhat larger and more adjustable. I like the idea of removing the springs to minimize the pedal force. And I also plan to make the co-pilot control stick removable.=20 =20 Stan Fields LEG #201 Austin, Texas www.lancairlegacybuilder.com =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill N5ZQ Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:26 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Do I need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals =20 Stan, =20 We didn't put right side rudders in our 320 and have not regretted that decision. When it's Sue's leg, she's in the left seat. When it's mine, I'm in the left seat. If right side pilot wants to fly...no problem as long as it's not a takeoff or landing. As has been mentioned cruise rudder use in minimal in these airplanes.=20 =20 Having said that, I would remind you that if your insurance company requires any "dual instruction" you may not be able to use your own airplane for it. The FAR's require "fully functioning dual controls" in order for a CFI to provide instruction. I know that this requirement is sometimes ignored but if the feds ever got involved (accident investigation, etc) you, and/or your instructor, might find yourself having an unwanted conversation with an Administrative Law Judge. Just something else to consider. =20 Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1,750 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction =20 =20 =20 =20 I'm building a Legacy and I'm trying to complete the Rudder controls. At 6'3" I need as much knee and leg room as possible without resting my feet on the exhaust manifold. So, I'm installing the StarFlight hanging rudder pedals. My question to the group is this: Should I get both pilot and co-pilot rudder pedals?=20 - Will I need the co-pilot controls for training? - Many have said they would not let anyone make a right seat landing in their Legacy and most of my passengers could not land the plane regardless. - Is the value of a single rudder pedal Legacy materially lower than one with dual controls?=20 - I am installing an air conditioner evaporator/blower behind the panel and could possibly use the space. - Are there any other considerations? Stan http://www.lancairlegacybuilder.com ------_=_NextPart_003_01CAAF82.38FA0880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have to second what Valin says = about the springs.  I replaced the Lancair floor mounted pedals with the = Startflgiht pedals and there was a drastic difference in friction.  There is no = need to remove the springs on the Starflight pedals.  They are very smooth and = easy to actuate with all springs attached.

 

Kevin

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Valin & Allyson = Thorn
Sent: February 16, 2010 = 19:11
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Do I = need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals

 

 

I think the gentleman that = recommended removing the torsion springs from the co-pilot pedals was basing it on = his experience with Lancair’s floor mounted adjustable pedals – = which have fairly high torque and introduce some friction in their = mechanism.  Our torsion springs are very low torque and do not introduce noticeable friction in the system with our use of polymer bearings between = surfaces.  There’s  just enough torque to take up slack in the = cables. 

 

So we don’t think = it’s necessary to remove the springs from our mechanism.  You certainly = can remove, if you’d like, and they will operate just = fine.

 

Valin

=

 

 

Starflight, = Inc.

1702 Emerald Lake Ct,

Houston, = TX 77062

281.486.4663

http://www.starflight.aero/leg= acy

3D"Starflight

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Stan Fields
Sent: Tuesday, February = 16, 2010 7:42 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Do I = need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals

 

Thanks to all who weighed in on = the need for co-pilot rudder pedals.  The consensus seems to be that for instruction, insurance or for the occasional right seat driver that dual = controls should be installed. So I decided to go with the Starflight rudder = pedals because they are somewhat larger and more adjustable. I like the idea of removing the springs to minimize the pedal force.  And I also plan = to make the co-pilot control stick removable.

 <= /p>

Stan = Fields

LEG = #201

Austin<= font color=3D"#1f497d">, Texas

www.lancairlegacybuilder.com=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill N5ZQ
Sent: Tuesday, February = 16, 2010 12:26 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Do I = need Co-pilot Rudder Pedals

 

Stan,

 

We didn’t put right side = rudders in our 320 and have not regretted that decision. When it’s = Sue’s leg, she’s in the left seat. When it’s mine, I’m in the = left seat. If right side pilot wants to fly…no problem as long as it’s = not a takeoff or landing. As has been mentioned cruise rudder use in minimal = in these airplanes.

 

Having said that, I would remind = you that if your insurance company requires any “dual instruction” = you may not be able to use your own airplane for it. The FAR’s require “fully functioning dual controls” in order for a CFI to provide  instruction. I know that this requirement is sometimes = ignored but if the feds ever got involved (accident investigation, etc) you, = and/or your instructor, might find yourself having an unwanted conversation = with an Administrative Law Judge. Just something else to = consider.

 

Bill = Harrelson

N5ZQ 320 1,750 = hrs

N6ZQ  IV under = construction

 

 

 

 

I'm building a Legacy and I'm = trying to complete the Rudder controls. At 6'3" I need as much knee and leg = room as possible without resting my feet on the exhaust manifold. So, I'm = installing the StarFlight hanging rudder pedals. My question to the group is = this:

Should I get both pilot and co-pilot = rudder pedals?

- Will I need the co-pilot controls for training?

- Many have said they would not let anyone make a right seat landing in = their Legacy and most of my passengers could not land the plane = regardless.

- Is the value of a single rudder pedal Legacy materially lower than one = with dual controls?

- I am installing an air conditioner evaporator/blower behind the panel = and could possibly use the space.

- Are there any other considerations?

Stan
http://www.lancairlegacybuil= der.com

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