X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:40:46 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-yx0-f184.google.com ([209.85.210.184] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4021562 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:42:33 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.184; envelope-from=mwsletten@gmail.com Received: by yxe14 with SMTP id 14so4060614yxe.7 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:41:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:x-mailer:thread-index:content-language; b=RhK/VCb+aWXvkTCJCjAxBKCDeqS3QCc3uSr3/lUXj+A+Snnl3WenZh2kSFCYybecc6 rOSlDHMDoFoP0DpT+xt7QMFzTWcvplGnh3q5kZAi78g0Ot43Tg4WO504AvLSsEGAYZ73 zaRZpw+4JvUGqNFhYqQQynVjJRBGtJfI97whU= Received: by 10.101.176.2 with SMTP id d2mr526737anp.27.1260888118221; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:41:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from MarkPC (208.65.124.116-dsl.stj.hometel.com [208.65.124.116]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm2365125yxe.0.2009.12.15.06.41.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Mark Sletten" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" X-Original-Cc: "'Jim Scales'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Tone on list X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:41:54 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <004001ca7d94$c0755ff0$41601fd0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01CA7D62.75DAEFF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acp9OgNG/e1Nv3gRROuQTE6OY2FLHgAUGpgA Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CA7D62.75DAEFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, Email is a terrible medium for communicating tone. It's difficult to accurately project and/or discern emotion via email. Often a writer intends to be sarcastic in a humorous way, but it is received as demeaning and derogatory. Some of us military types grew up in a flying environment where one's skills and judgment were under constant review. Public post-flight reviews (to give you an idea of the mindset, we called them 'critiques') were mandatory, and all aspects of a mission were evaluated for mission effectiveness and safety. For training missions, the guiding principle was (still is I'm sure) 'safety of flight is paramount.' For operational missions crews might assume higher risks to get the job done, but compromising safety for a training mission was , um, not in accordance with official guidance. Despite our government's current effort to the contrary, you can't write a rule book that prohibits EVERY sort of dangerous behavior/mindset/inclination. This, of course, is especially true in an organization where such behaviors/mindsets/inclinations would be advantageous, depending on the mission. There are many things you can do with a USAF aircraft that, while not specifically forbidden, would be considered dangerous -- even negligent -- on a training mission. The problem is you can't simply throw away a pilot you have spent millions training for behaving stupidly on a single flight. And sanctioning via official means (reprimands, courts-martial, etc.) usually kills any chance of promotion, so you may as well count on a person so sanctioned to punch out (of the service) at the earliest opportunity. Understanding this, the leadership chooses to use peer pressure to modify behavior rather than more official means. It turns out the peer pressure idea works better anyway. In a community so inculcated with the 'safety culture,' engaging in behavior not officially prohibited, but considered unsafe, was grounds for public humiliation during a post-flight critique with the crews of all aircraft involved, and maybe even during a monthly safety meeting in front of the entire wing. Such public humiliation served several purposes including (but not limited to): - It provides a teaching moment to show how easy it is to make bad decisions - Those experiencing such public humiliation rarely repeat the offending behavior - Those observing learned the hazard of engaging in such behavior I don't bring all this up to suggest ritual public humiliation as a means to make all Lancair pilots identical automatons of safety. I only wish to point out that while public rebukes may come across as pompous personal puffing (and some may be), often it is simply a matter of habit - and old habits are hard to break. My suggestion is for both sides to attempt tone deafness. Those posting their disapproval of others should make every attempt to post opinion backed by fact and data, but absent the vitriol. If the subject behavior/idea/mindset is heinous enough it will speak for itself. Humor is often an effective tool to use in such cases, but beware the problems noted above. If you want to be funny, be sure it's funny and not mean spirited. You might find them trite and silly, but adding an emoticon to your text can be an effective means of deflecting hurt feelings. (I can't wait to see how some of these guys react to this one. :-P) Those on the receiving end of a critique should assume the best of intentions on the part of the poster. Speaking for myself, if I offer an opinion about another's judgment or behavior, I do so with the sole purpose of avoiding injury or bent airplanes. My guess is the vast majority of those posting negatively have the same goal. In other words, as difficult as it may be, when you're getting spanked try to get the message and ignore the tone. One thing I would point out to those who truly have the best of intentions (improving safety) when critiquing another: If your message bounces off the defensive wall sure to go up after you deride his/her ego, your best intention to 'help' a person will come to naught, because even the best, most obvious message is wasted if the receiver doesn't get it Even if everyone completely disregards this rambling missive, Jim, please don't quit the forum because you are unhappy with the tone. I have learned some very important lessons while observing the (often unpleasant) dissection of another person's behavior. I've learned some of the most important lessons of my life after being shown (always unpleasant) how I'd behaved stupidly or irresponsibly. Yes, it hurt, but I am forever grateful to the @$$holes who pointed out the error of my ways. Respectfully, Mark Sletten From: Jim Scales [mailto:joscales98@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:52 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Tone on list In my opinion the tone on the list recently, in a couple of the threads, has gotten pretty abrasive. Rather than abandon a resource that I have utilized for a long time, I thought I would make a couple of comments. Seems that every so often there are those who feel the need to puff themselves up and put others down. In my opinion it really defeats the purpose of the list and turns other listers off. I'm guessing it also greatly inhibits the willingness of a lot of people to participate. After about 3 back and forth attempts to change the opponent's point of view it would seem that agreeing to disagree would be the adult thing to do. When all is said and done it really is each individual's right to make his or her own decisions. To summarize, I participate because I want to be the best, safest, smartest pilot I can be. I believe most of us hang around for the same reasons. It doesn't do me or any other lister any good if the tone that is used to present the information prevents the information from being received. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CA7D62.75DAEFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jim,

 

Email is a terrible medium for communicating tone. = It’s difficult to accurately project and/or discern emotion via email. Often a writer = intends to be sarcastic in a humorous way, but it is received as demeaning and = derogatory.

 

Some of us military types grew up in a flying environment = where one’s skills and judgment were under constant review. Public = post-flight reviews (to give you an idea of the mindset, we called them = ‘critiques’) were mandatory, and all aspects of a mission were evaluated for mission effectiveness and safety. For training missions, the guiding principle = was (still is I’m sure) ‘safety of flight is paramount.’ = For operational missions crews might assume higher risks to get the job = done, but compromising safety for a training mission was , um, not in accordance = with official guidance.

 

Despite our government’s current effort to the = contrary, you can’t write a rule book that prohibits EVERY sort of dangerous behavior/mindset/inclination. This, of course, is especially true in an organization where such behaviors/mindsets/inclinations would be = advantageous, depending on the mission. There are many things you can do with a USAF = aircraft that, while not specifically forbidden, would be considered dangerous -- = even negligent -- on a training mission. The problem is you can’t = simply throw away a pilot you have spent millions training for behaving stupidly on a = single flight. And sanctioning via official means (reprimands, courts-martial, = etc.) usually kills any chance of promotion, so you may as well count on a person so sanctioned to punch out (of the service) at the earliest opportunity. = Understanding this, the leadership chooses to use peer pressure to modify behavior = rather than more official means. It turns out the peer pressure idea works = better anyway.

 

In a  community so inculcated with the ‘safety culture,’ engaging in behavior not officially prohibited, but = considered unsafe, was grounds for public humiliation during a post-flight critique with = the crews of all aircraft involved, and maybe even during a monthly safety meeting = in front of the entire wing. Such public humiliation served several purposes = including (but not limited to):

 

- It provides a teaching moment to show how easy it is to = make bad decisions

- Those experiencing such public humiliation rarely = repeat the offending behavior

- Those observing learned the hazard of engaging in such = behavior

 

I don’t bring all this up to suggest ritual public humiliation as a means to make all Lancair pilots identical automatons = of safety. I only wish to point out that while public rebukes may come = across as pompous personal puffing (and some may be), often it is simply a matter of habit = – and old habits are hard to break.

 

My suggestion is for both sides to attempt tone deafness. = Those posting their disapproval of others should make every attempt to post = opinion backed by fact and data, but absent the vitriol. If the subject = behavior/idea/mindset is heinous enough it will speak for itself. Humor is often an effective = tool to use in such cases, but beware the problems noted above. If you want to = be funny, be sure it’s funny and not mean spirited. You might find them = trite and silly, but adding an emoticon to your text can be an effective means of deflecting hurt feelings. (I = can’t wait to see how some of these guys react to this one… = :-P)

 

Those on the receiving end of a critique should assume = the best of intentions on the part of the poster. Speaking for myself, if I offer = an opinion about another’s judgment or behavior, I do so with the = sole purpose of avoiding injury or bent airplanes. My guess is the vast majority of = those posting negatively have the same goal. In other words, as difficult as = it may be, when you’re getting spanked try to get the message and ignore = the tone.

 

One thing I would point out to those who truly have the = best of intentions (improving safety) when critiquing another: If your message = bounces off the defensive wall sure to go up after you deride his/her ego, your = best intention to ‘help’ a person will come to naught, because even the = best, most obvious message is wasted if the receiver doesn’t get = it

 

Even if everyone completely disregards this rambling = missive, Jim, please don’t quit the forum because you are unhappy with the = tone. I have learned some very important lessons while observing the (often = unpleasant) dissection of another person’s behavior. I’ve learned some = of the most important lessons of my life after being shown (always unpleasant) = how I’d behaved stupidly or irresponsibly. Yes, it hurt, but I am forever = grateful to the @$$holes who pointed out the error of my ways.

 

Respectfully,

 

Mark Sletten

 

From:= Jim Scales [mailto:joscales98@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:52 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Tone on list

 

In my opinion the tone on the list recently, in a = couple of the threads, has gotten pretty abrasive.  Rather than abandon = a resource that I have utilized for a long time, I thought I would make a = couple of comments.

 

Seems that every so often there are those = who feel the need to puff themselves up and put others down.  In my opinion it = really defeats the purpose of the list and turns other listers off.  I'm = guessing it also greatly inhibits the willingness of a lot of people to = participate.

 

After about 3 back and forth attempts to change the = opponent's point of view it would seem that agreeing to disagree would be the adult = thing to do.  When all is said and done it really is each individual's = right to make his or her own decisions. 

 

To summarize, I participate because I want to be the best, = safest, smartest pilot I can be.  I believe most of us hang around for the = same reasons.  It doesn’t do me or any other lister any good if = the tone that is used to present the information prevents the information from = being received. 

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