X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:40:45 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4021793 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:08:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.145; envelope-from=bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Received: from COL108-W62 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:07:59 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_14fcc268-ca1b-4444-b4ac-0565464b7b70_" X-Originating-IP: [71.111.139.49] From: Bill Kennedy X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy Crash Watsonville? X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:07:59 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2009 16:07:59.0542 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5830D60:01CA7DA0] --_14fcc268-ca1b-4444-b4ac-0565464b7b70_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Along this line=2C I spoke to Paul Metz about 90 minutes after he punched o= ut of an F105 near Cuddyback gunnery range. He told me=2C with authority=2C= that when the engine started winding down on pullout from a dive bomb pass= =2C that he saw zero fuel flow and zero P1 and P2 (hydraulics)=2C thus it h= ad to be a sheared assessory case drive shaft and there was nothing he coul= d do. None of the memorized emergency procedures were applicable. He held t= he nose up until his speed decayed and ejected in ideal conditions. So=2C it was coolness and marvelous system knowledge that saved the day. Ca= n you train for it. Yes=2C I think so=2C but this thing with Metz was way b= eyond normal -- but if you want a goal to shoot for=2C this is it. To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 08:41:11 -0500 From: randystuart@hotmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Crash Watsonville? I was just talking to a fellow=20 pilot concerning emergency training=2C etc.=20 There was a Piper Tramahawk=20 that went down a few days ago near me=2C killing both the student pilot and= the=20 CFI... It apparently lost power and then altitude. The odd part is=2C it=20 crashed into some trees.... In a rural area where there are many many opens= =20 fields and pastures. Clear=2C no wind=2C VFR.=20 OK=2C here's a plane that will=20 still fly at 50 KTS=2C with a CFI on board=2C with miles and miles of open = area to=20 attempt to walk away from a dirt landing... Seems=20 simple??? I'm sure we all remember the=20 countless times the CFI pulled the throttle or shut the fuel valve off duri= ng=20 our private training. And with that=2C we were taught to find the open area= s or=20 landable roads=2C freeway=2C golf courses=2C etc.=2C get to best glide=2C b= race for=20 the worst.... I'm sure most of us always have a conscious landing spot in m= ind=20 during every mile of every flight.. So how does this happen??=20 We'll never know what they were thinking but I can only guess that when the= sh*t=20 hits the fan some pilots try to stay calm and revert to training and some p= ilots=20 lock up and forget everything. I can only speak from my own experiences=2C= =20 not anyone else's.=20 It's impossible to know how=20 anyone would react until it happens to them. It's pretty easy to make decis= ions=20 sitting in an easy chair but real panic is overwhelming for many people.=20 I'm sure there's a few pilots=20 here that have experienced a dead stick or two=2C a fire or some emergency = that=20 called for immediate action. Perhaps some of these stories could be=20 shared with the LML folks.=20 =20 Randy=20 Stuart LNC-2 =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Don Karich=20 =20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday=2C December 14=2C 2009 7:52=20 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Crash=20 Watsonville? =20 I was trained that in event of a fire on board to get out of=20 the sky ASAP. Not dangle on a parachute for several minutes while cooking= . We=20 would practice 7000 ft / min decents with quick pull out and stick it on = the=20 earth while still cognizant enough to land it and hopefully no major part= s=20 melted off. On Mon=2C Dec 14=2C 2009 at 1:18 PM=2C farnsworth =20 wrote: =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf of=20 Ron Laughlin Sent: Monday=2C December 14=2C 2009 9:26 AM "I=20 wish he had had an airframe parachute. He might still be with us. I guess=20 he opted for Rob's extra 10 gallons of gas that gave him soooo many more=20 options.... RonL" Since an airframe parachute option is=20 not an OPTION on a Legacy=2C he had two other options that may have allowed=20 him to survive: 1. Wear a personal parachute 2. Install a=20 feathering prop I have both of those options with my Legacy. The prop=20 is counterweighted and so will feather with loss of oil pressure. =20 Lynn Farnsworth Super Legacy #235 TSIO-550=20 Powered Race #44 Mmo .6 Mach Feathering Prop =20 =20 =20 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html = --_14fcc268-ca1b-4444-b4ac-0565464b7b70_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Along this line=2C I spoke to Paul Metz about 90 minutes after he punched o= ut of an F105 near Cuddyback gunnery range. He told me=2C with authority=2C= that when the engine started winding down on pullout from a dive bomb pass= =2C that he saw zero fuel flow and zero P1 and P2 (hydraulics)=2C thus it h= ad to be a sheared assessory case drive shaft and there was nothing he coul= d do. None of the memorized emergency procedures were applicable. He held t= he nose up until his speed decayed and ejected in ideal conditions.

= So=2C it was coolness and marvelous system knowledge that saved the day. Ca= n you train for it. Yes=2C I think so=2C but this thing with Metz was way b= eyond normal -- but if you want a goal to shoot for=2C this is it.

<= hr id=3D"stopSpelling">To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 200= 9 08:41:11 -0500
From: randystuart@hotmail.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Leg= acy Crash Watsonville?

I was just talking = to a fellow=20 pilot concerning emergency training=2C etc.
There was a Piper T= ramahawk=20 that went down a few days ago near me=2C killing both the student pilot and= the=20 CFI... It apparently lost power and then altitude. The odd part is= =2C it=20 crashed into some trees.... In a rural =3Barea where there are many man= y opens=20 fields and pastures. Clear=2C no wind=2C VFR.
OK=2C here's a plan= e that will=20 still fly at 50 KTS=2C with a CFI on board=2C with miles and miles of open = area to=20 attempt to walk away from a dirt landing... Seems=20 simple???
I'm sure we all rem= ember the=20 countless times the CFI pulled the throttle or shut the fuel valve off duri= ng=20 our private training. And with that=2C we were taught to find the open area= s or=20 landable =3Broads=2C freeway=2C golf courses=2C etc.=2C get to best gli= de=2C brace for=20 the worst.... I'm sure most of us always have a conscious landing spot in m= ind=20 during every mile of every flight..
So how does this ha= ppen??=20 We'll never know what they were thinking but I can only guess that when the= sh*t=20 hits the fan some pilots try to stay calm and revert to training and some p= ilots=20 lock up and forget everything. I can only speak =3Bfrom my own experien= ces=2C=20 not anyone else's.
It's impossible to = know how=20 anyone would react until it happens to them. It's pretty easy to make decis= ions=20 sitting in an easy chair but real panic is overwhelming for many people.=20
I'm sure there's a = few pilots=20 here that have experienced a dead stick or two=2C a fire or some emergency = that=20 called for immediate action. Perhaps some of these stories could be=20 shared =3Bwith the LML folks.
 =3B
Randy=20 Stuart
LNC-2
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
-= ---- Original Message -----
From:=20 Don = Karich=20
<= b>Sent: Monday=2C December 14=2C 2009 7:52=20 PM
<= b>Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Crash=20 Watsonville?

I was trained that in event of a fire on board to get out = of=20 the sky ASAP. Not dangle on a parachute for several minutes while cooking= . We=20 would practice 7000 ft / min decents with quick pull out and stick it on = the=20 earth while still cognizant enough to land it and hopefully no major part= s=20 melted off.

On Mon=2C Dec 14=2C 2009 at 1:18 PM=2C farn= sworth <=3Bfa= rnsworth@charter.net>=3B=20 wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: Lancai= r Mailing=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline= .net] On Behalf of=20 Ron
Laughlin
Sent: Monday=2C December 14=2C 2009 9:26 AM

<= br>"I=20 wish he had had an airframe parachute. He might still be with us. I
= guess=20 he opted for Rob's extra 10 gallons of gas that gave him soooo
many = more=20 options....

RonL"

Since an airframe parachute optio= n is=20 not an OPTION on a Legacy=2C he had two
other options that may have = allowed=20 him to survive:

1. Wear a personal parachute
2. Install a=20 feathering prop

I have both of those options with my Legacy. The= prop=20 is counterweighted and
so will feather with loss of oil pressure.

Lynn Farnsworth
Super Legacy #235
TSIO-5= 50=20 Powered
Race #44
Mmo .6 Mach
Feathering Prop

= --_14fcc268-ca1b-4444-b4ac-0565464b7b70_--