X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: LML Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:32:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from blu0-omc3-s7.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4003542 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:55:22 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.116.82; envelope-from=randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from BLU0-SMTP31 ([65.55.116.73]) by blu0-omc3-s7.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 4 Dec 2009 23:54:47 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [99.163.235.11] X-Originating-Email: [randystuart@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from laptop ([99.163.235.11]) by BLU0-SMTP31.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 4 Dec 2009 23:54:45 -0800 From: "Randy" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number X-Original-Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 23:54:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02CF_01CA753D.2B143580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2009 07:54:46.0195 (UTC) FILETIME=[365F2830:01CA7580] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02CF_01CA753D.2B143580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Skip,=20 I don't think Lynn nor I have advocated in any way that any pilot fly in = any manor. I merely stated that I, on occasion, push my Lancair past Vne = and Lynn had stated that he pushes his Lancair past Vne. Neither one of = us has recommended anyone else to do this.=20 Since my admission I have been insulted, berated, talked down to and = pretty much left for dead. Lynn chimes in and he's treated in the same = manor.=20 I personally feel safe in my judgment, I've been flying a long time and = well versed with this model Lancair. Lynn, as well, is very experienced = with his Lancair and his judgments.=20 Why all the hate?? These are our choices, we feel safe, how did this = become everyone else's condemnation?=20 Neither Lynn nor I have asked anyone here to fly with us, we haven't = offered to train anyone to exceed Vne, we haven't promoted doing = anything...... This is a forum about Lancair's, geared to a Lancair community. We are = not all gray, we are all individuals, we all make our own choices. Not = to judged.=20 In all the years I've been on this forum I have never seen so much = disrespect towards fellow Lancair builders / pilots. All from sharing = information.=20 We were just discussing Lancair's in a Lancair forum.=20 I hope I speak for Lynn, and others that have defended our free choice, = to enjoy our Lancair's as we see fit. =20 I know everyone here on the LML wishes everyone safe flying.=20 Randy Stuart LNC-2 I need to go fly!!! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Skip Slater=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number Lynn, My only objection here is the cavalier disregard for limitations. = Your plane is an exception in that it was specifically modified to race, = as was Greenameyer's and the IV that Lancair raced in the early Sport = Class races in Reno (at least the engine was). Your mods make your = plane safe to fly at those speeds and you have established a higher Vne = that you respect. That's the smart way to do it. The vast majority of = the Lancairs flying don't have the airframe mods you have and their = pilots, if they choose to fly past redline IAS, have nothing upon which = to base their own limiting airspeed. I hope you're not suggesting that = they're all as safe to fly as fast as you do. If our entire community decides that limitations are just = guidelines which can be ignored, we deserve all the bad press we've been = getting. If you ignore Vne, why not ignore an RMP limit, G limit or any = other limitation you find too restrictive? It's an attitude we = shouldn't be fostering, particularly in a public forum such as the LML. If Joe B. thinks Lancair Vne's are too low, why doesn't he raise = them? If the factory endorses the raising of limits based upon their = own research and flight testing, I have no problem with that. However = if you, Randy or any other Lancair drivers right up to Joe instead = advocate the disregard of the current published limitations, I = personally think that's an unwise choice. I've been a professional = pilot since I left college and I wasn't trained to think that way and = strongly discourage the practice. Why don't we just leave it at that. Regards, Skip ------=_NextPart_000_02CF_01CA753D.2B143580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Skip,=20
I don't think Lynn = nor I have=20 advocated in any way that any pilot fly in any manor. I merely stated = that I, on=20 occasion, push my Lancair past Vne and Lynn had stated that he = pushes=20 his Lancair past Vne. Neither one of us has recommended anyone = else to do=20 this.
Since my admission = I have been=20 insulted, berated, talked down to and pretty much left for dead. Lynn = chimes in=20 and he's treated in the same manor.
I personally feel = safe in my=20 judgment, I've been flying a long time and well versed with this model = Lancair.=20 Lynn, as well, is very experienced with his Lancair and his judgments.=20
Why all the=20 hate??  These are our choices, we feel safe, how did this = become=20 everyone else's condemnation?
Neither Lynn nor I = have asked=20 anyone here to fly with us, we haven't offered to train anyone to exceed = Vne, we=20 haven't promoted doing anything......
This is a forum = about=20 Lancair's, geared to a Lancair community. We are not all gray, we are = all=20 individuals, we all make our own choices. Not to judged.=20
In all the years = I've been on=20 this forum I have never seen so much disrespect towards fellow = Lancair=20 builders / pilots. All from sharing information. =
We were just = discussing=20 Lancair's in a Lancair forum.
I hope I speak for = Lynn, and=20 others that have defended our free choice, to enjoy our Lancair's = as=20 we see fit. 
I know everyone = here on the=20 LML wishes everyone safe flying.
 
Randy=20 Stuart
LNC-2
 
I need to go=20 fly!!!
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Skip=20 Slater
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 = 11:01=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a = meaningless number

Lynn,
   My only objection = here is the cavalier disregard for limitations.  Your plane = is an=20 exception in that it was specifically modified to race, as was = Greenameyer's=20 and the IV that Lancair raced in the early Sport Class races in = Reno (at=20 least the engine was).  Your mods make your plane safe to fly at = those=20 speeds and you have established a higher Vne that you = respect. =20 That's the smart way to do it.  The vast majority of the = Lancairs=20 flying don't have the airframe mods you have and their pilots, if = they=20 choose to fly past redline IAS, have nothing upon which to base = their own=20 limiting airspeed.  I hope you're not suggesting that they're all = as safe=20 to fly as fast as you do.
   If our entire community = decides that=20 limitations are just guidelines which can be ignored, we deserve all = the bad=20 press we've been getting.  If you ignore Vne, why not ignore an = RMP=20 limit, G limit or any other limitation you find too restrictive?  = It's an=20 attitude we shouldn't be fostering, particularly in a public = forum=20 such as the LML.
  If Joe B. thinks Lancair Vne's = are too=20 low, why doesn't he raise them?  If the factory endorses the = raising of=20 limits based upon their own research and flight testing, I have no = problem=20 with that.  However if you, = Randy or any=20 other Lancair drivers right up to Joe instead advocate the = disregard of=20 the current published limitations, I personally think that's an unwise = choice.  I've been a professional pilot since I left college = and I wasn't trained to think that way and strongly = discourage the=20 practice.
   Why don't we just leave = it at=20 that.
   Regards,
  =20 Skip 
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