Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
To:  lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:58:29 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-3690976@logan.com>
Received-SPF: none
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.44.50; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com
DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
  h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type;
  b=MeSHBx0fXNcXcXU3PVccqqUfPSKl2CFECi6vx9S1Gtj6rHtvmwrXzkr5s97iKDpnDsrih4qGrCDxn8flfCio53YEYD4WEEU+gQhPKr0TTgwItkhnsMZh6j3n7QB2r9fcD0pKMIiy78Hs6opEacjgDfKU13OeWMX2B3jJPIOoHoY=;
References: <list-3690686@logan.com>
From: Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Add another one to the List
In-Reply-To: <list-3690686@logan.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1700104822-1245669963=:6717"


--0-1700104822-1245669963=:6717
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nice work, Brent.=A0 I've been in the pressure sensor business for quite a =
while and I don't know of a commercially-available millivolt output sensor =
that is environmentally packaged with a "real" connector; so your approach =
may be the only option.=A0 In my opinion, a millivolt output sensor without=
 a fully sealed package, connector and wiring is unacceptable.=0A=0AJust an=
other comment about loss of oil pressure:=A0 It's my understanding (please =
correct me if I'm wrong!)=A0 that if the engine truly loses oil pressure th=
e prop governor will also cease to function, creating an overspeed conditio=
n.=A0 So a zero oil pressure indication without any change in engine speed =
is cause for=A0concern and immediate landing, but not panic.=A0 On the othe=
r hand, I have read a report of an accident where the engine speed started =
to surge and the pilot assumed the governor was acting up.=A0 A minute late=
r the oil pressure went to zero (oil leak caused loss of oil).=A0 Turns out=
 if he had recognized the surge as a loss of oil pressure he could have mad=
e it to the nearby airport.=A0 So my "plan" is to go into panic mode if the=
 engine surges even though there is no oil pressure loss, but not panic if =
the engine speed is stable but the oil pressure indication goes to zero.=A0=
 Both, of course require an immediate landing.=A0 The guy with the
 engine surge was flying a fully certified aircraft with NO oil pressure al=
arm - how can "they" allow such things?=A0 I was tempted to install a low o=
il pressure switch along with the electronic engine monitor, but I didn't.=
=A0 Might be a good idea and I think I'll do it next time.=0A=0AGary Casey=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI had a similar experience as Bill=A0 except it was the oil =
pressure sensor. Nothing gets you on the ground faster than a zero oil pres=
sure alarm. Happened twice. The first time I replaced the sensor and the se=
cond time was about a month later. I figured it must have been a connection=
 of the DPU so I replaced the cable, connections and even removed the DPU t=
o verify proper function. I swapped fuel pressure and oil pressure inputs t=
o be sure it wasn't a flaky A-D channel on the DPU.=A0 After weeks of mucki=
ng about it turns out that the new sensor was flaky.=A0 A call to JP got th=
e "You installed it you bought it" response. My reply? Foxtrot Yankee.=0A=
=0AI never much cared for the Media Mate sensors because they used crummy "=
Faston" spade connections that treat millivolt signals like a junk yard dog=
 so I decided to make something better.=0A=0AUnderstand that these types of=
 pressure sensors use strain gages (resistors that vary with strain) in a W=
hetstone bridge configuration. The output is proportional to the input and =
the pressure applied,=A0 or millivolts per volt of excitation per PSI of ap=
plied pressure. If at 50 PSI and 5 volt excitation you get a 5 millivolt ou=
tput then at 10 volt excitation you would get 10 millivolts at the same app=
lied pressure. VM1000 uses 5 volt excitation.=0A=0AFor the oil pressure I e=
nded up selecting the Honeywell 19C series in 0-100 PSI range (19C100PG4K) =
http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.cfm?ci_id=3D140301&la_id=3D1&pr_id=3D145=
986=0A=0Aand machining a backshell out of aluminum to accept a MIL Spec 4 p=
in connector. (see attached picture of the modeled assembly). You need acce=
ss to a lathe and a mill for about an hour to make the backshell. The senso=
r was about $110 and the connector another $20.=0A=0AThe fuel pressure sens=
or needs to have a 0-50 PSI range so the part number would be 19C50PG4K.=0A=
=0AThe sensor has been installed for over 2 years without any problem.=0A=
=0AAny brave soul that wants to follow my footsteps to make their own backs=
hell, email me and I'll send you a drawing, or better yet, the SolidWorks m=
odel.=0A=0ARegards=0ABrent Regan=0A=0A=0A-----Inline Message Follows-----=
=0A=0ASorry wrong picture. Here is the correct one. =0ABryan=0A=0A=0AOn Sat=
, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Bryan Wullner <vonjet@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0AMy =
Lancair 360, N127EM, got its pink slip today after 4 years of construction.=
 Its now ready for test flights.=A0 =0AIts a Lancair 360 with MKII tail, ou=
tback gear.=0ABryan=0A=0A=0A=0A      
--0-1700104822-1245669963=:6717
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV>Nice work, Brent.&nbsp; I've been in the pressure sens=
or business for quite a while and I don't know of a commercially-available =
millivolt output sensor that is environmentally packaged with a "real" conn=
ector; so your approach may be the only option.&nbsp; In my opinion, a mill=
ivolt output sensor without a fully sealed package, connector and wiring is=
 unacceptable.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Just another comment about =
loss of oil pressure:&nbsp; It's my understanding (please correct me if I'm=
 wrong!)&nbsp; that if the engine truly loses oil pressure the prop governo=
r will also cease to function, creating an overspeed condition.&nbsp; So a =
zero oil pressure indication without any change in engine speed is cause fo=
r&nbsp;concern and immediate landing, but not panic.&nbsp; On the other han=
d, I have read a report of an accident where the engine speed started to su=
rge and the pilot assumed the governor was acting up.&nbsp; A minute later =
the oil pressure went to zero (oil leak caused loss of oil).&nbsp; Turns ou=
t if he had recognized the surge as a loss of oil pressure he could have ma=
de it to the nearby airport.&nbsp; So my "plan" is to go into panic mode if=
 the engine surges even though there is no oil pressure loss, but not panic=
 if the engine speed is stable but the oil pressure indication goes to zero=
..&nbsp; Both, of course require an
 immediate landing.&nbsp; The guy with the engine surge was flying a fully =
certified aircraft with NO oil pressure alarm - how can "they" allow such t=
hings?&nbsp; I was tempted to install a low oil pressure switch along with =
the electronic engine monitor, but I didn't.&nbsp; Might be a good idea and=
 I think I'll do it next time.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Gary Casey<=
BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, ne=
w york, times, serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR>I had a similar experience as Bi=
ll&nbsp; except it was the oil pressure sensor. Nothing gets you on the gro=
und faster than a zero oil pressure alarm. Happened twice. The first time I=
 replaced the sensor and the second time was about a month later. I figured=
 it must have been a connection of the DPU so I replaced the cable, connect=
ions and even removed the DPU to verify proper function. I swapped fuel pre=
ssure and oil pressure inputs to be sure it wasn't a flaky A-D channel on t=
he DPU.&nbsp; After weeks of mucking about it turns out that the new sensor=
 was flaky.&nbsp; A call to JP got the "You installed it you bought it" res=
ponse. My reply? Foxtrot Yankee.<BR><BR>I never much cared for the Media Ma=
te sensors because they used crummy "Faston" spade connections that treat m=
illivolt signals like a junk yard dog so I decided to make something better=
..<BR><BR>Understand that
 these types of pressure sensors use strain gages (resistors that vary with=
 strain) in a Whetstone bridge configuration. The output is proportional to=
 the input and the pressure applied,&nbsp; or millivolts per volt of excita=
tion per PSI of applied pressure. If at 50 PSI and 5 volt excitation you ge=
t a 5 millivolt output then at 10 volt excitation you would get 10 millivol=
ts at the same applied pressure. VM1000 uses 5 volt excitation.<BR><BR>For =
the oil pressure I ended up selecting the Honeywell 19C series in 0-100 PSI=
 range (19C100PG4K) <A href=3D"http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.cfm?ci_id=
=3D140301&amp;la_id=3D1&amp;pr_id=3D145986" target=3D_blank>http://sensing.=
honeywell.com/index.cfm?ci_id=3D140301&amp;la_id=3D1&amp;pr_id=3D145986</A>=
<BR><BR>and machining a backshell out of aluminum to accept a MIL Spec 4 pi=
n connector. (see attached picture of the modeled assembly). You need acces=
s to a lathe and a mill for about an hour to make the backshell. The sensor=
 was
 about $110 and the connector another $20.<BR><BR>The fuel pressure sensor =
needs to have a 0-50 PSI range so the part number would be 19C50PG4K.<BR><B=
R>The sensor has been installed for over 2 years without any problem.<BR><B=
R>Any brave soul that wants to follow my footsteps to make their own backsh=
ell, email me and I'll send you a drawing, or better yet, the SolidWorks mo=
del.<BR><BR>Regards<BR>Brent Regan<BR><BR><BR>-----Inline Message Follows--=
---<BR><BR>Sorry wrong picture. Here is the correct one.=0A<DIV>Bryan<BR><B=
R>=0A<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Bryan Wullne=
r <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:vonjet@gmail.com" target=3D_blank r=
el=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:vonjet@gmail.com">vonjet@gmail.com</A>&gt;<=
/SPAN> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: =
1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">My Lancair 360=
, N127EM, got its pink slip today after 4 years of construction. Its now re=
ady for test flights.&nbsp;=0A<DIV>Its a Lancair 360 with MKII tail, outbac=
k gear.</DIV>=0A<DIV>Bryan</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></=
div><br>=0A=0A      </body></html>
--0-1700104822-1245669963=:6717--