X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 23:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3594952 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:39:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.82; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090424023847.KABU2647.mta31.charter.net@imp11> for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:38:47 -0400 Received: from axs ([75.132.241.174]) by imp11 with charter.net id jEen1b0023mUFT705EenBC; Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:38:47 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <0DC4A21464394968B773996BFE315AF8@axs> From: "terrence o'neill" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: rough IO-320 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:38:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01C9C45B.E25DDCC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C9C45B.E25DDCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grayhawk, Yes indeedy. Yesterday I found myself moving the idle adjusting linkage = about 25 clicks lean, to get it running fairly smooth at near idle ... = about 750 rpm. Now I'm searching for maybe a slight induction leak... = but it's a relief its better nwo. Terrence ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sky2high@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 19:40 Subject: [LML] Re: rough IO-320 Terrence ands Gary, Arrrrrgh! I forgot Klaus' warning about the need to carefully redo = the idle mixture settings (especially if a switch was made from mags to = the EI). I was surprised how much leaner the idle setting had to be. = We must remember that at very low power settings (idle), the timing = might be 34 or more DBTDC. F/A ratios are very important in this = regime. Grayhawk In a message dated 4/22/2009 8:27:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, = casey.gary@yahoo.com writes: Terrance, I agree with Grayhawk's suggestions. Yes, the Plasma III is a = "double-strike" ignition and helps some for starting and idling. A CD = ignition such as yours can help with firing fouled plugs, but the arc = duration is so short (a few microseconds compared to a standard = ignition's few milliseconds) that if conditions are not good there could = still be a problem. Sounds to me like the main problem is simple plug = fouling caused by a new engine being run on the ground for extended = periods. I had the same problem and had to clean the plugs multiple = times in the first couple of hours. In fact, for the first flight I = cleaned the plugs and then waited till the path to the runway was clear = of traffic. Cleaning the plugs when they are just wet with oil - they = can be washed with gasoline and then blown off with compressed air, or = use a propane torch to heat the insulator until it gets dry and white. = It took about 50 hours before I could taxi without concern of fouling. = I agree with your desire to have it "run perfectly" before first flight, = but it's impossible to do a break-in on the ground, so it will keep = burning oil. One telltale of "leaky" rings is the compression test - if = it is almost perfect (80/80) it is likely that there is so much oil = getting past the rings the oil will seal during the compression test. A = good sign of a "broken-in" engine is compression readings of about 76. Another thought - after the potential air leaks are corrected - is = that the RSA system is generally calibrated well for higher power, but = the idle adjustment can vary. After the plugs are clean and it will = idle, check the idle mixture - it should be richened just enough to get = an rpm drop of maybe 50 rpm from max. It might be that the idle mixture = is off enough to make it rough at low rpm. Gary Casey -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- -----Inline Message Follows----- Almost ready to aviate, but taxiing with engine that has been = getting increasingly rougher, even after overhauling the Bendix RSA and = testing the Plasma II CDI ignitions okay. En ine sat for years, = labelled preserved, but for about 5 years not run after complete = rebuild by Performance Airmotive about 8 or 9 years ago. =20 Now, taxied and othrwise run-up for less than 3 hours, is becoming = increasingly less inclined to idle., Initially would idle smoothly down to about 650-700rpm...=20 Then the lower plugs fouled/carbon and oil...replaced with new plugs = at 2 hrs.; then in another hour of ground running, runs strongly at 1500-2500 = rpm, and when below 1500 mostly aggressively lean, still the bottom = plugs again fouled in less than an hour, and minimum idle speed = increased to about 900 rpm, running so rich it fouled plugs even with = agressive leaning... suspected fuel injection servo had dried and = cracked diaphrams, having sat dry for many years, so had it overhauled = (Kelly)... Ran it two days ago, and the minimum idle speed without competely = cutting out, was 1000 rpm. Runs strong at higher rpms. Will run a compression test tomorrow.. I want this mill to run perfectly before I fly it. Any comments or suggestion welcome. Terrence L235/320 N211AL KGRE -----Inline Message Follows----- Terrence, Test the induction system for leaks. The rubber hose type seals = where the air distribution system leaves the sump are the most likely = candidates, although the gaskets at each cylinder can break down also. Make sure that the adapter and plug anti-seize is appropriate. Stuff = such as the Permatex silver colored goop can foul plugs to the point of = misfiring. Use something like the Champion black antiseize. I believe the difference between the Plasma II and III ignitions is = that the III system extends the duration of the spark and that can help = less than perfect ignition conditions. Perhaps you should re-check the = timing with a light. Do you have the optional display that allows you = to check MAP, RPM and timing? Loose timing data wires (can cause = misfiring) or bad RPM and MAP data to the Plasma controllers could = result in erratic ignition. Do you have the crank sensors or the mag = drive sensors? The connectors to the mag drive sensors are, uh, not, = uh, perfect. While the ignition can be a bit off and still result in apparent OK = operation, the F/A ratio is most critical with induction system leaks = being most evident by poor operation at low power. Misfiring leads to = plug fouling. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops! No virus found in this incoming message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.0.22 - 10.100.057). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ No virus found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.0.22 - 10.100.057). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C9C45B.E25DDCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Grayhawk,
 
Yes indeedy.  Yesterday = I found=20 myself moving the idle adjusting linkage about 25 clicks lean, to get it = running=20 fairly smooth at near idle ... about 750 rpm.   Now I'm = searching for=20 maybe a slight induction leak... but it's a relief its better = nwo.
 
Terrence
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Sky2high@aol.com=20
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009=20 19:40
Subject: [LML] Re: rough = IO-320

Terrence ands Gary,
 
Arrrrrgh!  I forgot Klaus' warning about the need to = carefully redo=20 the idle mixture settings (especially if a switch was made from mags = to the=20 EI).  I was surprised how much leaner the idle setting had to = be. =20 We must remember that at very low power settings (idle), the timing = might be=20 34 or more DBTDC.  F/A ratios are very important in this=20 regime.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 4/22/2009 8:27:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 casey.gary@yahoo.com writes:
Terrance,
I agree with Grayhawk's suggestions.  Yes, the Plasma III = is a=20 "double-strike" ignition and helps some for starting and idling. =  A CD=20 ignition such as yours can help with firing fouled plugs, but the = arc=20 duration is so short (a few microseconds compared to a standard = ignition's=20 few milliseconds) that if conditions are not good there could still = be a=20 problem.  Sounds to me like the main problem is simple plug = fouling=20 caused by a new engine being run on the ground for extended periods. =  I=20 had the same problem and had to clean the plugs multiple times in = the first=20 couple of hours.  In fact, for the first flight I cleaned the = plugs and=20 then waited till the path to the runway was clear of traffic. =  Cleaning=20 the plugs when they are just wet with oil - they can be washed with = gasoline=20 and then blown off with compressed air, or use a propane torch to = heat the=20 insulator until it gets dry and white.  It took about 50 hours = before I=20 could taxi without concern of fouling.  I agree with your = desire to=20 have it "run perfectly" before first flight, but it's impossible to = do a=20 break-in on the ground, so it will keep burning oil.  One = telltale of=20 "leaky" rings is the compression test - if it is almost perfect = (80/80) it=20 is likely that there is so much oil getting past the rings the oil = will seal=20 during the compression test.  A good sign of a "broken-in" = engine is=20 compression readings of about 76.

Another thought - after the potential air leaks are corrected - = is that=20 the RSA system is generally calibrated well for higher power, but = the idle=20 adjustment can vary.  After the plugs are clean and it will = idle, check=20 the idle mixture - it should be richened just enough to get an rpm = drop of=20 maybe 50 rpm from max.  It might be that the idle mixture is = off enough=20 to make it rough at low rpm.
Gary Casey


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Almost ready to = aviate, but=20 taxiing with engine that has been getting increasingly rougher, even = after=20 overhauling the Bendix RSA and testing the Plasma II CDI ignitions=20 okay.  En ine sat for years, labelled preserved, but for about = 5 years=20 not run  after complete rebuild by Performance Airmotive = about 8=20 or 9 years ago. 
Now, taxied and = othrwise=20 run-up for less than  3 hours, is becoming = increasingly less=20 inclined to idle.,
Initially would = idle=20 smoothly down to about 650-700rpm...
Then the lower = plugs=20 fouled/carbon and oil...replaced with new plugs at 2 = hrs.;
then in another = hour of=20 ground running, runs strongly at 1500-2500 rpm, and when below 1500 = mostly=20 aggressively lean, still the bottom plugs again fouled in less = than an=20 hour, and minimum idle speed increased to about 900 rpm, running so = rich it=20 fouled plugs even with agressive leaning... suspected fuel injection = servo=20 had dried and cracked diaphrams, having sat dry for many years, so = had it=20 overhauled (Kelly)...
Ran it two days = ago, and=20 the minimum idle speed without competely cutting out, was 1000 rpm. = Runs=20 strong at higher rpms.
Will run a = compression test=20 tomorrow..
I want this = mill to run=20 perfectly before I fly it.
Any comments or = suggestion=20 welcome.
Terrence
L235/320
N211AL = KGRE
 
 
-----Inline Message = Follows-----

Terrence,
 
Test the induction system for leaks.  The rubber hose type = seals=20 where the air distribution system leaves the sump are the most = likely=20 candidates, although the gaskets at each cylinder can break down = also.
 
Make sure that the adapter and plug anti-seize is appropriate. = Stuff=20 such as the Permatex silver colored goop can foul plugs to the point = of=20 misfiring.  Use something like the Champion black = antiseize.
 
I believe the difference between the Plasma II and III = ignitions is=20 that the III system extends the duration of the spark and that can = help less=20 than perfect ignition conditions.  Perhaps you should re-check = the=20 timing with a light.  Do you have the optional display that = allows you=20 to check MAP, RPM and timing?  Loose = timing data wires (can=20 cause misfiring) or bad RPM and MAP data to the Plasma = controllers=20 could result in erratic ignition.  Do you have the crank = sensors or the=20 mag drive sensors?  The connectors to the mag drive sensors = are, uh,=20 not, uh, perfect.
 
While the ignition can be a bit off and still result in = apparent OK=20 operation, the F/A ratio is most critical with induction system = leaks=20 being most evident by poor operation at low power. Misfiring leads = to plug=20 fouling.
 
Scott Krueger = AKA=20 Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)



= Big=20 savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!


No virus found in this incoming message
Checked = by PC=20 Tools AntiVirus (5.0.0.22 - 10.100.057).
http://www.pctools.com/fr= ee-antivirus/


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