X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:26:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from n7.bullet.re3.yahoo.com ([68.142.237.92] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with SMTP id 3592647 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:41:18 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.237.92; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n7.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2009 12:39:34 -0000 Received: from [66.196.97.146] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2009 12:39:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp204.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2009 12:39:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 80895.13949.bm@omp204.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 63123 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Apr 2009 12:39:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=n0cd2dUeiNgT2viPgUjIg2hBHhIeph+EzKIEhwqu3mQVAtLwNZ0dbb7hFeThABW3XXjw0PrUcW2zrM6ZVC6PbIazl1glwXb8QGPqnQQrG753GZXU5dSEzrT38iaX15+/o5iELQtBwDpoboDF0ZP39NnolBSdpV82mLztn+NIlOw=; X-Original-Message-ID: <928847.60074.qm@web57506.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fGl_6.wVM1nM2y4yUscdaiMyoQDjwetIVtZSUts.txYa21wgSLmuvywAkA83uBqkSVzipPbNHJ0V3F.QumUu.f2WtkzOvenC4pQ.2OLy7wwyyi4K.wzBea0UuzpamsxXpbFDJuYPhngMsmqye0_EBKHQ4sWldt7xjcA0U5iJpD.BHVzd2hB.fZ47VU4DqaZoHyDUA9HGZzljp3M9gafxEPoYPNpIZX1hguRq7ccZpC.W0xiW3HRz4yFwz8Ec_mbDWtH1s9oyWJRYUjj2pUUMQ5rQfHTyoIhK3.JypVQyvCWiiTXNv4xa Received: from [97.122.180.106] by web57506.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:39:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Casey Subject: Re: rough IO-320 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-700560926-1240403973=:60074" --0-700560926-1240403973=:60074 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terrance,=0AI agree with Grayhawk's suggestions. Yes, the Plasma III is a = "double-strike" ignition and helps some for starting and idling. A CD igni= tion such as yours can help with firing fouled plugs, but the arc duration = is so short (a few microseconds compared to a standard ignition's few milli= seconds) that if conditions are not good there could still be a problem. S= ounds to me like the main problem is simple plug fouling caused by a new en= gine being run on the ground for extended periods. I had the same problem = and had to clean the plugs multiple times in the first couple of hours. In= fact, for the first flight I cleaned the plugs and then waited till the pa= th to the runway was clear of traffic. Cleaning the plugs when they are ju= st wet with oil - they can be washed with gasoline and then blown off with = compressed air, or use a propane torch to heat the insulator until it gets = dry and white. It took about 50 hours before I could taxi without concern = of fouling. I agree with your desire to have it "run perfectly" before first= flight, but it's impossible to do a break-in on the ground, so it will kee= p burning oil. One telltale of "leaky" rings is the compression test - if = it is almost perfect (80/80) it is likely that there is so much oil getting= past the rings the oil will seal during the compression test. A good sign= of a "broken-in" engine is compression readings of about 76.=0A=0AAnother = thought - after the potential air leaks are corrected - is that the RSA sys= tem is generally calibrated well for higher power, but the idle adjustment = can vary. After the plugs are clean and it will idle, check the idle mixtu= re - it should be richened just enough to get an rpm drop of maybe 50 rpm f= rom max. It might be that the idle mixture is off enough to make it rough = at low rpm.=0AGary Casey=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A-= ----Inline Message Follows-----=0A=0A=0AAlmost ready to aviate, but =0Ataxi= ing with engine that has been getting increasingly rougher, even after =0Ao= verhauling the Bendix RSA and testing the Plasma II CDI ignitions okay. = =0AEn ine sat for years, labelled preserved, but for about 5 years =0Anot r= un after complete rebuild by Performance Airmotive about 8 or 9 =0Ayears a= go. =0ANow, taxied and othrwise run-up =0Afor less than 3 hours, is becom= ing increasingly less inclined to =0Aidle.,=0AInitially would idle smoothly= =0Adown to about 650-700rpm... =0AThen the lower plugs =0Afouled/carbon an= d oil...replaced with new plugs at 2 hrs.;=0Athen in another hour of ground= =0Arunning, runs strongly at 1500-2500 rpm, and when below 1500 mostly agg= ressively =0Alean, still the bottom plugs again fouled in less than an hour= , and minimum =0Aidle speed increased to about 900 rpm, running so rich it = fouled plugs even with =0Aagressive leaning... suspected fuel injection ser= vo had dried and cracked =0Adiaphrams, having sat dry for many years, so ha= d it overhauled =0A(Kelly)...=0ARan it two days ago, and the =0Aminimum idl= e speed without competely cutting out, was 1000 rpm. Runs strong at =0Ahigh= er rpms.=0AWill run a compression test =0Atomorrow.=0AI want this mill to r= un =0Aperfectly before I fly it.=0AAny comments or suggestion =0Awelcome.= =0ATerrence=0AL235/320=0AN211AL KGRE=0A =0A -----Inline Message Follows----= -=0A=0ATerrence,=0A =0ATest the induction system for leaks. The rubber hos= e type seals where=0Athe air distribution system leaves the sump are the mo= st likely candidates,=0Aalthough the gaskets at each cylinder can break dow= n also.=0A =0AMake sure that the adapter and plug anti-seize is appropriate= .. Stuff such=0Aas the Permatex silver colored goop can foul plugs to the po= int of=0Amisfiring. Use something like the Champion black antiseize.=0A = =0AI believe the difference between the Plasma II and III ignitions is that= =0Athe III system extends the duration of the spark and that can help less = than=0Aperfect ignition conditions. Perhaps you should re-check the timing= with a=0Alight. Do you have the optional display that allows you to check= MAP, RPM=0Aand timing? Loose timing data wires (can cause=0Amisfiring) or= bad RPM and MAP data to the Plasma controllers could result=0Ain erratic i= gnition. Do you have the crank sensors or the mag drive=0Asensors? The co= nnectors to the mag drive sensors are, uh, not, uh,=0Aperfect.=0A =0AWhile = the ignition can be a bit off and still result in apparent OK=0Aoperation, = the F/A ratio is most critical with induction system leaks being=0Amost evi= dent by poor operation at low power. Misfiring leads to plug=0Afouling.=0A = =0AScott Krueger=0AAKA Grayhawk=0ALancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96=0AAurora, IL= =0A(KARR)=0A=0A=0A --0-700560926-1240403973=:60074 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Terrance,
I agree with Grayhawk's sugges= tions. =A0Yes, the Plasma III is a "double-strike" ignition and helps some = for starting and idling. =A0A CD ignition such as yours can help with firin= g fouled plugs, but the arc duration is so short (a few microseconds compar= ed to a standard ignition's few milliseconds) that if conditions are not go= od there could still be a problem. =A0Sounds to me like the main problem is= simple plug fouling caused by a new engine being run on the ground for ext= ended periods. =A0I had the same problem and had to clean the plugs multipl= e times in the first couple of hours. =A0In fact, for the first flight I cl= eaned the plugs and then waited till the path to the runway was clear of tr= affic. =A0Cleaning the plugs when they are just wet with oil - they can be washed with gasoline and then blown off with compressed air, or use a prop= ane torch to heat the insulator until it gets dry and white. =A0It took abo= ut 50 hours before I could taxi without concern of fouling. =A0I agree with= your desire to have it "run perfectly" before first flight, but it's impos= sible to do a break-in on the ground, so it will keep burning oil. =A0One t= elltale of "leaky" rings is the compression test - if it is almost perfect = (80/80) it is likely that there is so much oil getting past the rings the o= il will seal during the compression test. =A0A good sign of a "broken-in" e= ngine is compression readings of about 76.

Another= thought - after the potential air leaks are corrected - is that the RSA sy= stem is generally calibrated well for higher power, but the idle adjustment= can vary. =A0After the plugs are clean and it will idle, check the idle mi= xture - it should be richened just enough to get an rpm drop of maybe 50 rpm from max. =A0It might be that the idle mixture is off enough to make i= t rough at low rpm.
Gary Casey


-----Inline Message Follow= s-----

=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
Almost ready to aviate, but =0Ataxiing with engine that ha= s been getting increasingly rougher, even after =0Aoverhauling the Bendix R= SA and testing the Plasma II CDI ignitions okay.=A0 =0AEn ine sat for years= , labelled preserved, but for about 5 years =0Anot=A0run=A0 after complete = rebuild by Performance Airmotive about 8 or 9 =0Ayears ago.=A0 =0A
Now, taxied and = othrwise run-up =0Afor=A0less than=A0=A03 hours, is becoming increasingly l= ess inclined to =0Aidle.,
=0A
Initially would idle smoothly =0Adown to about 650-700= rpm...
=0A
Then the lower plugs =0Afouled/carbon and oil...replaced with new plugs = at 2 hrs.;
=0A
then in another hour of ground =0Arunning, runs strongly at 1500-250= 0 rpm, and when below 1500 mostly aggressively =0Alean,=A0still the bottom = plugs again fouled in less than an hour, and minimum =0Aidle speed increase= d to about 900 rpm, running so rich it fouled plugs even with =0Aagressive = leaning... suspected fuel injection servo had dried and cracked =0Adiaphram= s, having sat dry for many years, so had it overhauled =0A(Kelly)...=
=0A
Ran it two = days ago, and the =0Aminimum idle speed without competely cutting out, was = 1000 rpm. Runs strong at =0Ahigher rpms.
=0A
Will run a compression test =0Atomorrow= ..
=0A
I w= ant this mill to run =0Aperfectly before I fly it.
=0A
Any comments or suggestion = =0Awelcome.
=0A
Terrence
=0A
L235/320
=0A
N211AL KGRE
=0A
=A0
=0A
=A0
-----Inline Message Follows-----
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A
Terrence,
=0A
=A0
=0A
Test the induct= ion system for leaks.=A0 The rubber hose type seals where=0Athe air distrib= ution=A0system leaves the sump are the most likely candidates,=0Aalthough t= he gaskets at each cylinder can break down also.
=0A
=A0
=0A<= div>Make sure that the adapter and plug anti-seize is appropriate. Stuff su= ch=0Aas the Permatex silver colored goop can foul plugs to the point of=0Am= isfiring.=A0 Use something like the Champion black antiseize.
=0A
= =A0
=0A
I believe the difference between the Plasma II and III ign= itions is that=0Athe III system extends the duration of the spark and that = can help less than=0Aperfect ignition conditions.=A0 Perhaps you should re-= check the timing with a=0Alight.=A0 Do you have the optional display that a= llows you to check MAP, RPM=0Aand timing?=A0 Loose timing=A0data=A0wires (c= an cause=0Amisfiring)=A0or bad RPM and MAP data to the Plasma controllers c= ould result=0Ain erratic ignition.=A0 Do you have the crank sensors or the = mag drive=0Asensors?=A0 The connectors to the mag drive sensors are, uh, no= t, uh,=0Aperfect.
=0A
=A0
=0A
While the ignition can be a= bit off and still result in apparent OK=0Aoperation, the F/A ratio=A0is mo= st critical with induction system leaks being=0Amost evident by poor operat= ion at low power. Misfiring leads to plug=0Afouling.
=0A
=A0
= =0A
=0A
Scott = Krueger=0AAKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=0A(KAR= R)


=0A=0A --0-700560926-1240403973=:60074--