X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:40:30 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.137.6] (HELO imo-m25.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3518591 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:03:46 -0500 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id q.d3c.3b25f7a2 (41810) for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:03:45 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:03:42 EST Subject: Fwd: [LML] 360 in a small-tail LNC2? X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235696622" X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5003 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1235696622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 =20 ____________________________________ From: Sky2high To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: 2/25/2009 9:09:08 A.M. Central Standard Time Subj: Re: [LML] 360 in a small-tail LNC2? Yeah, that would be the wrong terminology. I think I got what he meant -=20 the elevator balance weight. =20 =20 In a message dated 2/25/2009 7:12:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, =20 wfhannahan@yahoo.com writes: _Grayhawk,=20 Please note that he said;=20 =E2=80=9CThe elevator bob weight was below the horizontal (elevator up, nos= e pitch =20 up) with flaps all the way up.=E2=80=9D=20 That implies nose up trim not down trim. Regards, Bill Hannahan wfhannahan@yahoo.com_ (mailto:wfhannahan@yahoo.com)=20 --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: From: Sky2high@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: 360 in a small-tail LNC2? To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:51 PM Craig, =20 Uh, I believe you are flying high in the ASI yellow arc all the time. That= =20 is quite beyond the max cruise design speed of about 180 KIAS and should=20 require the extra trim you mention. =20 BTW, mine runs out of down trim at 200 KIAS - so I push on the stick a bit=20 when racing. I suppose I could add a bungee cord from the firewall to the=20 stick for added trim. Gee, I run out of left rudder trim also. =20 Anyone that put an engine with greater than the design HP should expect to=20 consider, uh, trim adjustments since the design envelope has been pushed=20 beyond standard limits......... =20 Grayhawk =20 =20 In a message dated 2/23/2009 5:17:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 craig@skybolt.net writes: Hi Larry, I think you are right about the incidence being wrong in a lot of these airplanes. Mine will run out of down trim over 210 kts. A quick look back and I can see the elevator counterbalance sticking up about 3/8 inch. My=20= CG is perfectly to spec but at 210+ it doesn't seem to matter how the airplane is loaded. It still needs gobs of down trim. The problem is the faster th= e airplane goes the more lift the wing wants to create. So to keep the airplane flying level you have to reduce the angle of attack, that means down trim. A full flying horizontal stab would be the most efficient way around this. =20 Craig Schulze Lancair 320 small tail. -----Original Message----- From: LHenney [mailto:LHenney@charter.net]=20 Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 2:36 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: FW: 360 in a small-tail LNC2? Tom, I had occasion to visit my CG limits for a son's science project. Similarl= y I was assessing elevator bob weight position relative to the horizontal ta= il at race speeds and comparing airspeed data. =20 In my aircraft, your premise would be wrong. That is, I have to move the C= G forward to flatten out the elevators to the horizontal tail (which also increases speed (yes it's hard to believe)). As opposed to changing CG, on= e might verify horizontal tail incidence. Or more precisely all Lancair 320= / 360 I've flown with have this same affect (bob weights a little high at least minimally). Regarding your CG comments, serious pursuit of empty CG before any additional flight would be my recommendation (imho). The phrase " way to fa= r forward I think" has me squirming. Larry Henney PS: In my estimation, several 320/ 360 builders took the tail plane templat= e and transferred it to an incidence guide. The subsequent mistake was mounting one's smart level atop the guide and setting the tail plane at the requisite 1/4 to 1/2 degree nose down. The mistake is missing the fact tha= t the incidence guide off the blue print was already 1/2 degree nose down. Thus reading 0 deg on the smart level should have had the tail at the 1/2 degree nose down angle. Many are actually 1 deg nose down. This is not a problem. It just increases stability and costs 2-3 kts. Just my 2 cents. -----Original Message----- From: Tom McNerney [mailto:dudewanarace@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 12:51 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: RE:360 in a small-tail LNC2? Works great. I have a 400! I'm sure the rest of small tail group would agree. Might have to move your center of gravity back. (I need to) Only thing I can say is that slow flight with full flaps isn't the most comfortable, but now that I am aware of how it handles, doesn't bother me a bit. My CG is way to far forward I think, so that probably makes the slow flight a little different. On a side note.. I turned around and looked at the tail the other day while indicating 200KTS. I could see the elevator counter weight, or almo= st all of it. I didn't expect to see that at 200. Maybe 100.. haha This leads me to believe that I have a forward center of gravity. The big engi= ne would explain that. Once I get the plane on some scales, the only thing I can think of is to move the battery. My battery is behind the passenger seat. Has anyone mounted a battery behind the baggage compartment? Advice? Thanks Tom www.N54SG.com =20 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html =20 ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. _See yours in just 2 easy steps!_=20 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=3Dh= ttp://www. freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072&hmpgID=3D62&bcd=3Dfebemailf= ooterNO6 2)=20 =20 ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. _See yours in just 2 easy steps!_=20 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=3Dh= ttp://www .freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072&hmpgID=3D62&bcd=3Dfebemail= footerNO 62)=20 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy=20 steps!=20 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=3Dh= ttp:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgI= D %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1235696622 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
 
 
From: Sky2high
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: 2/25/2009 9:09:08 A.M= .=20 Central Standard Time
Subj: Re: [LML] 360 in a small-tail LNC2?
 
Yeah, that would be the wrong terminology.  I think I got what h= e=20 meant - the elevator balance weight.
 
In a message dated 2/25/2009 7:12:29 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 wfhannahan@yahoo.com writes:


A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See=20 yours in just 2 easy=20 steps!
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------------------------1235696622--

Grayhawk,

 

Please note t= hat he=20 said;

 

=E2=80=9CThe elevator=20 bob weight was below the horizontal (elevator up, nose pitch=20 up) with flaps all the way up.=E2=80=9D

 

That implies nose up trim not down trim.



Regards,
Bill Hannahan


--- On Mon= ,=20 2/23/09, Sky2high@aol.com <Sky2high@aol.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 Sky2high@aol.com <Sky2high@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re:=20= 360=20 in a small-tail LNC2?
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Mond= ay,=20 February 23, 2009, 7:51 PM

Craig,
 
Uh, I believe you are flying high in the ASI yellow ar= c=20 all the time.  That is quite beyond the max cruise des= ign=20 speed of about 180 KIAS and should require the extra trim you=20 mention.
 
BTW, mine runs out of down trim at 200 KIAS - so I push on=20= the=20 stick a bit when racing.  I suppose I could add a bungee co= rd=20 from the firewall to the stick for added trim.  Gee, I run=20= out=20 of left rudder trim also.
 
Anyone that put an engine with greater than the design HP=20 should expect to consider, uh, trim adjustments since  the=20 design envelope has been pushed beyond standard=20 limits.........
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 2/23/2009 5:17:00 P.M. Central Standard=20 Time, craig@skybolt.net writes:
Hi Larry,

I think you are right about the inci= dence=20 being wrong in a lot of these
airplanes.  Mine will ru= n=20 out of down trim over 210 kts.  A quick look back
and=20= I=20 can see the elevator counterbalance sticking up about 3/8=20 inch.  My CG
is perfectly to spec but at 210+ it doesn= 't=20 seem to matter how the airplane
is loaded.  It still n= eeds=20 gobs of down trim.  The problem is the faster the
airp= lane=20 goes the more lift the wing wants to create.  So to keep=20 the
airplane flying level you have to reduce the angle of=20 attack, that means
down trim.  A full flying horizonta= l=20 stab would be the most efficient way
around this. =20

Craig Schulze
Lancair 320 small=20 tail.

-----Original Message-----
From: LHenney=20 [mailto:LHenney@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 20= 09=20 2:36 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: FW: 360 in a=20 small-tail LNC2?

Tom,

I had occasion to visit my= CG=20 limits for a son's science project.  Similarly
I was=20 assessing elevator bob weight position relative to the horizon= tal=20 tail
at race speeds and comparing airspeed data. =20

In my aircraft, your premise would be wrong.  Tha= t=20 is, I have to move the CG
forward to flatten out the elevat= ors=20 to the horizontal tail (which also
increases speed (yes it'= s=20 hard to believe)).  As opposed to changing CG, one
mig= ht=20 verify horizontal tail incidence.  Or more precisely all=20 Lancair 320/
360 I've flown with have this same affect (bob= =20 weights a little high at
least minimally).

Regarding= =20 your CG comments, serious pursuit of empty CG before=20 any
additional flight would be my recommendation (imho). Th= e=20 phrase " way to far
forward I think" has me=20 squirming.

Larry Henney

PS: In my estimation,=20 several 320/ 360 builders took the tail plane template
and=20 transferred it to an incidence guide.  The subsequent mis= take=20 was
mounting one's smart level atop the guide and setting t= he=20 tail plane at the
requisite 1/4 to 1/2 degree nose down.&nb= sp;=20 The mistake is missing the fact that
the incidence guide of= f=20 the blue print was already 1/2 degree nose down.
Thus readi= ng 0=20 deg on the smart level should have had the tail at the=20 1/2
degree nose down angle.  Many are actually 1 deg n= ose=20 down.  This is not a
problem.  It just increases=20 stability and costs 2-3 kts.

Just my 2=20 cents.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom=20 McNerney [mailto:dudewanarace@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday,=20 February 20, 2009 12:51 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE:360 in a small-tail=20 LNC2?


Works great.  I have a 400!  I'm su= re=20 the rest of small tail group would
agree.  Might have=20= to=20 move your center of gravity back. (I need to)  Only
th= ing=20 I can say is that slow flight with full flaps isn't the=20 most
comfortable, but now that I am aware of how=20 it handles, doesn't bother me a
bit.  My CG is wa= y to=20 far forward I think, so that probably makes the slow
flight= a=20 little different.

On a side note..   I turned= =20 around and looked at the tail the other day
while=20 indicating 200KTS.  I could see the elevator counter weig= ht,=20 or almost
all of it.  I didn't expect to see that at=20 200.  Maybe 100..  haha  This
leads me to=20 believe that I have a forward center of gravity.  The big= =20 engine
would explain that.  Once I get the=20 plane on some scales, the only thing I
can think of is= to=20 move the battery.  My battery is behind the=20 passenger
seat.

Has anyone mounted a battery behind=20= the=20 baggage compartment? =20 Advice?

Thanks
Tom
www.N54SG.com=20




--
For archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy=20 steps!