X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:36:14 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.69.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with SMTP id 3504603 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 57850 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2009 00:33:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=5nwLa/G676XLHk3ZVRJYNdlPKfxf98m2Ikb2HjMUUTh6zXp5zO9ZwjCXKqwVfo1u7RqODygT/HYqD3TzyLW0v2Xk35VsqH4uT0et1GljG+/HrmgFaWPJZS4ZezR9/ufVR+RoyF+Qph06263gNgDrnlvxv6XomN8DaC/qbuqCqhw=; X-YMail-OSG: MYzGIrkVM1l85LqxJKSMJTzJcP4M.zg5YRbBPRa26NZSdnm5iX.UcYe8txoy6Q..xdCilY00YmoNTyuD5xLjVGp0m5fUtJXy48G4k30WzWnc0nAtb8gKpLge5Q_Z33pF5x7muAa2uLh4k56p97Rv2b5orjM2NZal0wxZ6mOSEWrveCCx9LINbToWcTui6EY7jI.NtxIM3Jixjf.kGYniMzvCoQgHUg-- Received: from [71.208.12.1] by web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:33:43 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 X-Original-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Hannahan Reply-To: wfhannahan@yahoo.com Subject: 360 in a small-tail LNC2? X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-66924040-1235262823=:57087" X-Original-Message-ID: <536850.57087.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-66924040-1235262823=:57087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 200 kt indicated the angle of attack of the wing and stabilizer will be very small regardless of CG location. =A0=20 Was the counterweight above or below the stabilizer? What was the flap setting? =A0=20 It may indicate a discrepancy between the wing and stabilizer incidence angle. =A0=20 Bill Hannahan =20 wfhannahan@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: From: Sky2high@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: 360 in a small-tail LNC2? To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 6:50 AM =20 Tom, =A0 If, at cruise, you saw the elevator=A0horn much above its=A0faired-in=20 position (down elevator, nose down trim, whatever) then the CG is too far= =20 back=A0and the negative lift (downward balancing force)=A0on the=20 horizontal stab had to be reduced.=A0 I.E. You may not have enough forward = CG=20 or the=A0negative angle of incidence of the horizontal stab may not be=20 enough.=A0=20 =A0 Remember, Lancair had a long=A0engine mount to compensate for the=20 rearward=A0CG moment caused by adding the big tail.=A0 If I remember=20 correctly, that moved the empty weight CG 1.5 inches forward with no diffic= ulty=20 or even=A0improved handling. =A0 Rearward CG is bad even if it is within the design envelope.=A0 Forward=20 CG is bad if you can't flare the airplane when landing although raising the= =20 flaps will raise the nose.=A0=20 =A0 Your discomfort at slow flight should be a warning and, indeed, it may be= =20 exacerbated by having a=A0rearward =A0CG.=A0 You really need to know=20 the CG values - such as when does the CG go out of the envelope with only f= uel=20 in the header tank and a too light pilot.......... =A0 Good Luck, =A0 Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL=20 (KARR) In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:51:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 dudewanarace@yahoo.com writes: Works great.=A0 I have a 400!=A0 I'm sure the rest of small=20 tail group would agree.=A0 Might have to move your center of gravity back= .=20 (I need to)=A0 Only thing I can say is that slow flight with full flaps= =20 isn't the most comfortable, but now that I am aware of how it=A0handles,= =20 doesn't bother me a bit.=A0 My CG is way to far forward I think, so that= =20 probably makes the slow flight a little different. On a side=20 note..=A0=A0 I turned around and looked at the tail the other=A0day=20 while indicating 200KTS.=A0 I could see the elevator counter weight, or= =20 almost all of it.=A0 I didn't expect to see that at 200.=A0 Maybe=20 100..=A0 haha=A0 This leads me to believe that I have a forward center=20 of gravity.=A0 The big engine would explain that.=A0 Once I get=A0the=20 plane=A0on some scales, the only thing I can think of is to move=A0the=20 battery.=A0 My battery is behind the passenger seat. Has anyone=20 mounted a battery behind the baggage compartment?=A0=20 Advice? Thanks Tom www.N54SG.com=20 -- For archives and=20 unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=20 =A0 A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!=0A= =0A=0A --0-66924040-1235262823=:57087 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 200 kt indicated the angle of attack of the wing = and stabilizer will be very small regardless of CG location.

 

=20

Was the counterweight above or below the stabilizer?= What was the flap setting?

 

=20

It may indicate a discrepancy between the wing and s= tabilizer incidence angle.

 

=20

Bill Hannahan


--- On Sat, 2/21/09, Sky2high@aol.com <Sky2high@aol= .com> wrote:
From: Sky2high@aol.com = <Sky2high@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: 360 in a small-tail LNC2?To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 6:50 AM
=20
Tom,
 
If, at cruise, you saw the elevator horn much above its fair= ed-in=20 position (down elevator, nose down trim, whatever) then the CG is too far= =20 back and the negative lift (downward balancing force) on the=20 horizontal stab had to be reduced.  I.E. You may not have enough forwa= rd CG=20 or the negative angle of incidence of the horizontal stab may not be= =20 enough. 
 
Remember, Lancair had a long engine mount to compensate for the= =20 rearward CG moment caused by adding the big tail.  If I remember= =20 correctly, that moved the empty weight CG 1.5 inches forward with no diffic= ulty=20 or even improved handling.
 
Rearward CG is bad even if it is within the design envelope.  For= ward=20 CG is bad if you can't flare the airplane when landing although raising the= =20 flaps will raise the nose. 
 
Your discomfort at slow flight should be a warning and, indeed, it may= be=20 exacerbated by having a rearward  CG.  You really need to kn= ow=20 the CG values - such as when does the CG go out of the envelope with only f= uel=20 in the header tank and a too light pilot..........
 
Good Luck,
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)

In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:51:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 dudewanarace@yahoo.com writes:

Works great.  I have a 400!  I'm= sure the rest of small=20 tail group would agree.  Might have to move your center of gravity b= ack.=20 (I need to)  Only thing I can say is that slow flight with full flap= s=20 isn't the most comfortable, but now that I am aware of how it handle= s,=20 doesn't bother me a bit.  My CG is way to far forward I think, so th= at=20 probably makes the slow flight a little different.

On a side=20 note..   I turned around and looked at the tail the other = day=20 while indicating 200KTS.  I could see the elevator counter weight, o= r=20 almost all of it.  I didn't expect to see that at 200.  Maybe= =20 100..  haha  This leads me to believe that I have a forward cen= ter=20 of gravity.  The big engine would explain that.  Once I get&nbs= p;the=20 plane on some scales, the only thing I can think of is to move = the=20 battery.  My battery is behind the passenger seat.

Has anyone= =20 mounted a battery behind the baggage compartment? =20 Advice?

Thanks
Tom
www.N54SG.com

--
For archives = and=20 unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=20
 

A Good Cred= it Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

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