X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:50:58 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3352041 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:46:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.101; envelope-from=paulhershorin@bellsouth.net Received: from fwebmail12.isp.att.net ([207.115.9.152]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20081210054525H0100t1occe>; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:45:25 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.115.9.152] Received: from [98.64.0.25] by fwebmail12.isp.att.net; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:45:25 +0000 From: paulhershorin@bellsouth.net X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: Re: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back X-Original-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:45:25 +0000 X-Original-Message-Id: <121020080545.15655.493F57740009694200003D2722230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02079D01089C9D0A08049A0E9F@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2008) X-Authenticated-Sender: cGF1bGhlcnNob3JpbkBiZWxsc291dGgubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15655_1228887925_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15655_1228887925_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I built my 360 I waws told by another builder to put 3 layers of carbo= n fiber on the doors to make them real stiff--I did this based on his exper= ience and I have never had a vibration problem. Paul Hershorin -------------- Original message from mquinns@aol.com: --------------=20 Harry, That is an idea I have not explored but this week I am finishing up on a= magnetic helper at the trailing edge to see whether that will work. If not= , your idea sounds like a possibility. Thanks Mark Quinn -----Original Message----- From: Harry League To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 1:55 pm Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back Just a thought: would a couple of air vents in the doors solve the problem= ? Start small and move larger until the noise stops or the doors stay shu= t. Regards, Harry League From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of marv= @lancair.net Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 21:46 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back Posted for mquinns@aol.com: Dom, AC-DC is not to my taste but listening to them would be far more music= al=20 and pleasant than gear door rumblings. Attached is a close up picture of a= =20 musical nocturne. =20 Mark =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Dominic V. Crain To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:06 pm Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back =20 =20 =20 =20 I would think that the gear doors rumbling would be far more musical than= =20 listening to AC-DC. =20 =20=20 =20 Cheers =20 Dom =20 VH-CZJ =20 &nb sp;=20 =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 mquinns@aol.com Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 3:25 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back =20 =20 =20=20 =20 Gerard, I had the same problem. Whenever the airspeed started moving past 210= =20 knots a buzz would start and then turn into a rumble as the plane went fast= er.=20 If the aircraft was decelerated......to a speed around 205 knots, the rumbl= ing=20 and buzzing would disappear but would reappear if the aircraft accelerated= =20 back above 210 knots. I was certain it was the nose gear door (made from=20 fiberglass) so I took the advice in archive and fabricated a much stiffer= =20 aluminum door. To my surprise the buzzing and rumbling problem was still th= ere=20 over certain speeds.!!!!???!!!! Fortunately for me, I live at at a place wh= ere=20 we formation fly to breakfast every Saturday and I usually fly with the SX-= 300=20 guys. One of these friends volunteered to go up with me and formate under m= e=20 to=20 see if the problem could be observed. Apparently, the main gear doors=20 trailing edges are being sucked out into the slipstream at certain airspeed= s.=20 We repeated the speed runs (accelerate/decelerate) and proble! m was clear. My plane does have a difference with yours which is, even though I have= =20 the outback gear, I decided to use the original cutout doors thinking they= =20 would create less drag. Don't know whether they do or not but have been una= ble=20 after many different attempts to keep the doors closed at high speed. In=20 January I will be racing and afterwards plan on doing a major condition=20 inspection (demating wings, removing all control surfaces, etc) and at that= =20 time will fit the original outback gear doors from the option kit. They do= =20 appear to be stiffer (I hope they don't generate more drag). I hope that th= is=20 cures my problem. Some of the Reno racers have recommended stiffening gear= =20 doors because this is a common problem for them while racing. If you find a= =20 magic bullet to correct the problem, please post it.=20 =20 Mark Quinn Lancair 360 Spruce Creek Fly-in, Florida =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: gerardoconnell@optusnet.com.au To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 9:15 pm Subject: [LML] outback gear doors-vibration is back =20 =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 Hi Ian and those whom have had gear door problems =20 =20=20 =20 -Gerard from Down Under/Up Over has gremlins again =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 Hope you're=3D2 0going well and enjoying you're flying. I'm just writing a= quick=20 note=20 =20 both on and off list as we've been over this ground before.=20 =20 =20=20 =20 Do you recall discussing the buzzing noise I had some time back which I=20 resolved=20 =20 both by removing the nose gear door and overlapping the main and inboard g= ear=20 =20 doors to get better "purchase" and stop vibration. =20 =20=20 =20 Well guess what? Thhe noise is now starting to return-I initially though= t I=20 =20 had the bass turned up too much whilst listening to AC -DC but even with t= he=20 =20 radio off I can appreciate the buzz from outside the aircraft.=20 =20 =20=20 =20 Perhaps I need to listen to Robbie Williams instead? =20 =20=20 =20 I originally spent thousands of $ trying various solutions to this problem= =20 and=20 =20 the final fix has worked for about 200 hours. I understand that some have= =20 also=20 =20 extended the door hinge/bracket to address this problem. =20 =20=20 =20 In short, my question is this-did you have this buzzing/vibration problem = and=20 =20 what methods did you employ before removing the inner gear doors altogethe= r?=20 Is=20 =20 this my best short cut to making the problem go away once and for all? =20 =20=20 =20 & nbsp;Your thoughts would be appreciated including and issues you mar or m= ay nopt=20 have=20 =20 experienced after removing the inner doors. =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 Cheers, =20 =20=20 =20 Gerard =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 =20=20 =20 -- =20 For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html =20 =20 =20 =20=20 =20 =20 =20 Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations =E2=80=93 including so= ngs for the=20 holidays =E2=80=93 FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now!=20 =20 =20 =20 The weather's getting colder, but the movies are getting hotter. See Movief= one's holiday movie guide and get the Moviefone Toolbar today.=20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15655_1228887925_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15655_1228887925_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15655_1228887925_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When I built my 360 I waws told by another builder to put 3 layers of = carbon fiber on the doors to make them real stiff--I did this based on his = experience and I have never had a vibration problem.
Paul Hershorin
-------------- Original message from mquinns@aol.com: ------= --------

Harry,
   That is an idea I have not exp= lored but this week I am finishing up on a magnetic helper at the trai= ling edge to see whether that will work. If not, your idea sounds like a po= ssibility. Thanks

Mark Quinn


-----Original Message-----From: Harry League <harryleague@comcast.net>
To: lml@lancaironli= ne.net
Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 1:55 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear = doors-vibration is back

Just a thought: = ; would a couple of air vents in the doors solve the problem?   S= tart small and move larger until the noise stops or the doors stay shut.
 <= /DIV>
Regards,
Harry League
 
 
From:= Lancair Mailing List [m= ailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of marv@lancair.net=
Sent: Saturday, Decembe= r 06, 2008 21:46 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear = doors-vibration is back
 

Posted for mquinns@aol.com:

 Dom,
     AC-DC= is not to my taste but listening to them would be far more musical
and= pleasant than gear door rumblings. Attached is a close up picture of a musical nocturne.
 
 Mark
 
 
 ---= --Original Message-----
From: Dominic V. Crain <domcrain@tpg.com.au>
 To: lml@lancaironline.net
 Sent: Fri, 5 De= c 2008 12:06 pm
 Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is= back
 
 
 
 
 I would think that t= he gear doors rumbling would be far more musical than
listening to AC-D= C.
 
  
 
 Cheers
 
 D= om
 
 VH-CZJ
 
&nb sp; 
 
&n= bsp;
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
mquinns@aol.com
 Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 3:= 25 PM
 To: lml@lancaironli= ne.net
 Subject: [LML] Re: outback gear doors-vibration is back=
 
 
  
 
 Gerard,
 &n= bsp;  I had the same problem. Whenever the airspeed started moving pas= t 210
knots a buzz would start and then turn into a rumble as the plane= went faster.
If the aircraft was decelerated......to a speed around 20= 5 knots, the rumbling
and buzzing would disappear but would reappear if= the aircraft accelerated
back above 210 knots. I was certain it was th= e nose gear door (made from
fiberglass) so I took the advice in archive= and fabricated a much stiffer
aluminum door. To my surprise the buzzin= g and rumbling problem was still there
over certain speeds.!!!!???!!!! = Fortunately for me, I live at at a place where
we formation fly to brea= kfast every Saturday and I usually fly with the SX-300
guys. One of the= se friends volunteered to go up with me and formate under me
to
&nb= sp;see if the problem could be observed. Apparently, the main gear doors trailing edges are being sucked out into the slipstream at certain airspe= eds.
We repeated the speed runs (accelerate/decelerate) and proble! m w= as clear.
    My plane does have a difference with yours = which is, even though I have
the outback gear, I decided to use th= e original cutout doors thinking they
would create less drag. Don't kno= w whether they do or not but have been unable
after many different atte= mpts to keep the doors closed at high speed. In
January I will be racin= g and afterwards plan on doing a major condition
inspection (demating w= ings, removing all control surfaces, etc) and at that
time will fit the= original outback gear doors from the option kit. They do
appear to be = stiffer (I hope they don't generate more drag). I hope that this
cures = my problem. Some of the Reno racers have recommended stiffening gear
do= ors because this is a common problem for them while racing. If you find a <= BR>magic bullet to correct the problem, please post it. 
 = ;
 Mark Quinn
 Lancair 360
 Spruce Creek Fly-in, Fl= orida
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: gerardoconnell@optusnet.com.a= u
 To: lml@lancaironli= ne.net
 Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 9:15 pm
 Subject: [LML] o= utback gear doors-vibration is back
 
 
  
=  
  
 
 Hi Ian and those whom have had ge= ar door problems
 
  
 
 -Gerard from = Down Under/Up Over has gremlins again
 
  
   
 
 Hope you're=3D2 0going well and enjoying = you're flying. I'm just writing a quick
note
 
 both o= n and off
 list as we've been over this ground before.
   
 
 Do you recall discussing the buzzing nois= e I had some time back which I
resolved
 
 both by rem= oving the nose gear door and overlapping the main and inboard gear
&nbs= p;
 doors to get better "purchase" and stop vibration.
   
 
 Well guess what?   Thhe noise is= now starting to return-I initially thought I
 
 had the b= ass turned up too much whilst listening to AC -DC but even with the
&nb= sp;
 radio off I can appreciate the buzz from outside the aircraft.=
 
  
 
 Perhaps I need to listen to = Robbie Williams instead?
 
  
 
 I ori= ginally spent thousands of $ trying various solutions to this problem
a= nd
 
 the final fix has worked for about 200 hours. I unde= rstand that some have
also
 
 extended the door hinge/= bracket to address this problem.
 
  
 
&nb= sp;In short, my question is this-did you have this buzzing/vibration proble= m and
 
 what methods did you employ before removing the i= nner gear doors altogether?
Is
 
 this my best short c= ut to making the problem go away once and for all?
 
  = ;
 
& nbsp;Your thoughts would be appreciated including and = issues you mar or may nopt
have
 
 experienced after r= emoving the inner doors.
 
  
 
  = ;
 
 Cheers,
 
  
 
 G= erard
 
  
 
  
 
&nbs= p; 
 
  
 
  
 
&= nbsp;--
 
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline= .net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 
 
 
 &nbs= p;
 
 
 
 Listen to 350+ music, sports, &am= p; news radio stations =E2=80=93 including songs for the
holidays =E2= =80=93 FREE while you browse.
 Start Listening Now!
 
&= nbsp;
 
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