X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:02:29 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.143.100] (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTP id 3270382 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:04:24 -0500 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id q.c0a.4b5eaa84 (37033) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-mf05 (webmail-mf05.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.218]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB023-90a9490fad9e2a4; Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:04:14 -0500 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy -AOPA article X-Original-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:04:14 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 71.85.153.156 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB0C38C5964916_718_3805_webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39598-STANDARD Received: from 71.85.153.156 by webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.218) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:04:14 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CB0C38C58CBF9E-718-1B57@webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CB0C38C5964916_718_3805_webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As John and Mark stated we are in this to improve on the Lancair safety issues, preserve our ability to get affordable insurance, protect our group from unreasonable governmental regulations and squeeze in some fun, to boot. None of us will see a penny go into our personal pockets but we have all seen a considerable outlay in?time and expenses. What is great is that many Lancair owners, pilots, builders and others share our enthusiasm and have not only joined LOBO but have volunteered to?take the bull by the horn and help in any way they can.?We are looking for a few good folks! Best Regards, Jeff Edwards ? -----Original Message----- From: Halle, John To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 6:25 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy -AOPA article Well, OK -- as the guy who formed the thing, I'll bite. As noted, there are no stockholders in a nonprofit and therefore no one to pay dividends to. No problem -- all we have to do is hire ourselves for exhorbitant salaries to work for the nonprofit. Gee, wonder why we didn't think of that. Could it be that some of us are actually concerned about safety in our community and want to do something about it? ________________________________ From: vonjet@gmail.com [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com] Sent: Sun 11/2/2008 4:29 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy -AOPA article Before you get excited about nonprofit. Nonprofit doesnt mean they cant charge you excessive amounts of money for anything they offer. There are all sorts of ways they can call the income other things than profit. Just look at NBAA. They are a .org and if you knew what it costs to advertise at a convention they put on or to have a booth at one of their shows you would flip. Not to mention admission fees just to attend. Nonprofit? They are probably one of the most profitable organizations. Or maybe they call profit: funds. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ From: Matt Reeves Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:10:09 -0400 To: Subject: [LML] Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy - AOPA article I think the best part about this is that it's "nonprofit." The last place I think anyone should be profiting in is Lancair education and training and flight testing. I'm sick and tired of the "what's your life worth?" - argument. With that argument, why not pay ten milllion dollars for training? Because it's a stupid argument - that's why. Finally, we have a group truly interesting in safety, not money. No one has a problem paying for ACTUAL expenses when it comes to training, it's the $5000/hr approach that steers people away. Above all, hopefully this group will promote common sense, which is priceless. Matt By By AOPA ePublishing staff A new nonprofit organization for Lancair owners and builders will focus on promoting the safe use of Lancair aircraft and emphasize owner, operator, and builder education and training, according to the group's founders. Recently started by a small group of Lancair enthusiasts and endorsed by Lancair International Inc., the Lancair Owners and Builders Organization, or LOBO , also hopes to build partnerships with insurance companies and work closely with regulatory agencies. "Coupled with better communication between our members and insurance providers, improved safety will help our members better control skyrocketing operating costs," said LOBO co-founder Bob Pastusek. Lancairs have been involved in what the FAA labeled a "disproportionate" number of fatal accidents, including seven fatal accidents between February and July of this year. See AOPA Air Safety Foundation Executive Director Bruce Landsberg's blog on the subject and share your opinions. -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----------MB_8CB0C38C5964916_718_3805_webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" As John and Mark stated we are in this to improve on the Lancair safety issues, preserve our ability to get affordable insurance, protect our group from unreasonable governmental regulations and squeeze in some fun, to boot. None of us will see a penny go into our personal pockets but we have all seen a considerable outlay in time and expenses. What is great is that many Lancair owners, pilots, builders and others share our enthusiasm and have not only joined LOBO but have volunteered to take the bull by the horn and help in any way they can. We are looking for a few good folks!

Best Regards,

Jeff Edwards

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Halle, John <JJHALLE@stoel.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 6:25 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy -AOPA article

Well, OK -- as the guy who formed the thing, I'll bite.  As noted, there are no 
stockholders in a nonprofit and therefore no one to pay dividends to.  No 
problem -- all we have to do is hire ourselves for exhorbitant salaries to work 
for the nonprofit.  Gee, wonder why we didn't think of that.  Could it be that 
some of us are actually concerned about safety in our community and want to do 
something about it?

________________________________

From: vonjet@gmail.com [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 11/2/2008 4:29 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy -AOPA 
article


Before you get excited about nonprofit.
Nonprofit doesnt mean they cant charge you excessive amounts of money for 
anything they offer. 
There are all sorts of ways they can call the income other things than profit. 
Just look at NBAA. They are a .org and if you knew what it costs to advertise at 
a convention they put on or to have a booth at one of their shows you would 
flip. Not to mention admission fees just to attend. Nonprofit? They are probably 
one of the most profitable organizations. 
Or maybe they call profit: funds.




Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

________________________________

From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:10:09 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Lancair owners form organization for safety, advocacy - AOPA 
article


I think the best part about this is that it's "nonprofit."  The last place I 
think anyone should be profiting in is Lancair education and training and flight 
testing.  

I'm sick and tired of the "what's your life worth?" - argument.   With that 
argument, why not pay ten milllion dollars for training?  Because it's a stupid 
argument - that's why.
Finally, we have a group truly interesting in safety, not money.  No one has a 
problem paying for ACTUAL expenses when it comes to training, it's the $5000/hr 
approach that steers people away.
Above all, hopefully this group will promote common sense, which is priceless.

Matt


By By AOPA ePublishing staff
A new nonprofit organization for Lancair owners and builders will focus on 
promoting the safe use of Lancair aircraft and emphasize owner, operator, and 
builder education and training, according to the group's founders.
Recently started by a small group of Lancair enthusiasts and endorsed by Lancair 
International Inc., the Lancair Owners and Builders Organization, or LOBO 
<http://www.lancairowners.com/> , also hopes to build partnerships with 
insurance companies and work closely with regulatory agencies.
"Coupled with better communication between our members and insurance providers, 
improved safety will help our members better control skyrocketing operating 
costs," said LOBO co-founder Bob Pastusek.
Lancairs have been involved in what the FAA labeled a "disproportionate" number 
of fatal accidents, including seven fatal accidents between February and July of 
this year. See AOPA Air Safety Foundation Executive Director Bruce Landsberg's 
blog <http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?m=200807>  on the subject and share your 
opinions.


--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
----------MB_8CB0C38C5964916_718_3805_webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com--