X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 23:04:34 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3102259 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.d0b.31c139b8 (42809) for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:46:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:46:59 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair Accidents X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1220194019" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1220194019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff, Bummer..... A small additional financial point. When I get too old to react properly in my wee-wiggly powered lawn dart, I may want to sell it. If I could find a buyer that understands the high insurance costs, he may be able to squeeze me on price since the qualified buyer population may be very small. Uh, I guess I could have simply said, "the resale value will be dramatically reduced." Maybe only Group B pilots are buying completed Lancairs - thus the recent surge in "insurance events." Grayhawk In a message dated 8/31/2008 6:52:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, vtailjeff@aol.com writes: This thread started out by talking about the recent spate of accidents and what we could do to address it. Then we got off on the subject of videos and low passes. Meanwhile, while we have been chatting on the internet, three more Lancairs bit the dust in the last ten days, fortunately with pride being the only injury. One IVP (N516DB) went off the runway in Hays, KS on 8/25. A 360-- N6114 experienced a gear collapse (hard landing?) also on 8/25 in Vancouver, WA and another 360 (N360J) landed gear up in Windsor Locks, CT. We are having a horrible year. Dennis is correct, if this were a military squadron, heads would be rolling. Training has been addressed here ad nauseum and it is evident we could all benefit from more training, but training is worthless without pilot discipline. Some of our pilots have the "right stuff" and some don't and some don't. There seems to be an odd dichotomy of pilot types in this group of Lancair pilots. This division of the GA pilot community is not restricted to Lancairs-- we just see the microcosm of it through this list. On the one hand (Group A) there are those who are well trained, follow regulations, stays current, stays proficient and pretty much stays in the middle of the air. As Brent Regan says--they don't let their kid fly the airplane. The opposing group (Group B) seems to have a bit of a rebel inside. They want the freedom flying offers without the responsibility. Some do not know what the federal air regulations are, don't like20to follow them anyway, and some don't care--but when things are going badly this second group seems to be the ones who blame the airplane. This is unfortunate and is currently causing others (FAA, EAA and the insurance industry) to take a hard look at us. What will happen? As I said earlier these three groups (FAA, EAA & insurance) really do not care about you or me. The FAA loves to regulate--so guess what is coming? More regulations. Guess who will pay for it? All of you. The FAA will likely (my prediction based on the rumor mill) make training mandatory for you to operate your Lancair as PIC. How much will this cost you? Current rates run between $1000 and $3000 dollars. Are you happy yet? Normally I would be upset but since I am a CFI and I teach in the Lancair group-- I want to thank you very very much. The insurance industry will make insurance unavaliable or very expensive for those who can get it. AIG--who is the largest Lancair undrerwriter-- is making everyone resubmit an application. They will then cherry pick the insured (remember those of us with over 1000 hours in type that have 0 Lancair accidents?). They will be able to get insurance--at a much higher premium. Those with under 100 hours in type are probably screwed. Still happy? BTW --did you know an Eclipse insurance policy is cheaper than a IVP policy? Think because you have a Legacy or a 360 you won't see an insurance bump?--think again. The IV & IVP is o nly 30% of the accident total. Keep piling up 320's, 360's, ES's and Legacies and you will be in the same insurance boat. Speaking of totals, as of 2004 Lancair had sold 1870 kits (see Lancair website). 1077 Lancairs are currently registered with the FAA. There have been over 150 Lancair accidents in the U.S. and elsewhere. I will breakdown the accidents, causes, types, etc. tomorrow. If Marv is kind enough, I will post the OSH powerpoint on the LML website. Decide for yourselves what is causing the accidents. So bottom line: if you have a IV or IVP the group B pilots will likely cost you over $5000 this year. Thank them next time you see them! I know I will. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1220194019 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff,
 
Bummer.....
 
A small additional financial point.  When I get too old to react=20 properly in my wee-wiggly powered lawn dart, I may want to sell it.  If= I=20 could find a buyer that understands the high insurance costs, he may be able= to=20 squeeze me on price since the qualified buyer population may be very=20 small.  Uh, I guess I could have simply said, "the resale value will be= =20 dramatically reduced." 
 
Maybe only Group B pilots are buying completed Lancairs - thus the rece= nt=20 surge in "insurance events."
 
Grayhawk
 
 
In a message dated 8/31/2008 6:52:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 vtailjeff@aol.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>This=20 thread started out by talking about the recent spate of accidents and what= we=20 could do to address it. Then we got off on the subject of videos and low=20 passes. Meanwhile, while we have been chatting on the internet, three more= =20 Lancairs bit the dust in the last ten days, fortunately with pride being t= he=20 only injury. One IVP (N516DB) went off the runway in Hays, KS on 8/25. A 3= 60--=20 N6114 experienced a gear collapse (hard landing?) also on 8/25 in Vancouve= r,=20 WA and another 360 (N360J) landed gear up in Windsor Locks, CT. We ar= e=20 having a horrible year. Dennis is correct, if this were a military squadro= n,=20 heads would be rolling.

Training has been addressed here ad=20 nauseum and it is evident we could all benefit from more training, but=20 training is worthless without pilot discipline. Some of our pilots have th= e=20 "right stuff" and some don't and some don't. There seems to be an odd=20 dichotomy of pilot types in this group of Lancair pilots. This division of= the=20 GA pilot community is not restricted to Lancairs-- we just see the microco= sm=20 of it through this list. On the one hand (Group A) there are those who are= =20 well trained, follow regulations, stays current, stays proficient and pret= ty=20 much stays in the middle of the air. As Brent Regan says--they don't let t= heir=20 kid fly the airplane. The opposing group (Group B) seems to have a bit of=20= a=20 rebel inside. They want the freedom flying offers without the responsibili= ty.=20 Some do not know what the federal air regulations are, don't like20to foll= ow=20 them anyway,  and some don't care--but when things are going badly th= is=20 second group seems to be the ones who blame the airplane.  This is=20 unfortunate and is currently causing others (FAA,  EAA and the insura= nce=20 industry) to take a hard look at us.

What will happen? As I said=20 earlier these three groups (FAA, EAA & insurance) really do not care a= bout=20 you or me. The FAA loves to regulate--so guess what is coming? More=20 regulations. Guess who will pay for it? All of you. The FAA will likely (m= y=20 prediction based on the rumor mill) make training mandatory for you to ope= rate=20 your Lancair as PIC. How much will this cost you? Current rates run betwee= n=20 $1000 and $3000 dollars. Are you happy yet? Normally I would be upset= but=20 since I am a CFI and I teach in the Lancair group-- I want to th= ank=20 you very very much.

The insurance industry will make insurance=20 unavaliable or very expensive for those who can get it. AIG--who is the=20 largest Lancair undrerwriter-- is making everyone resubmit an application.= =20 They will then cherry pick the insured (remember those of us with over 100= 0=20 hours in type that have 0 Lancair accidents?). They will be able to get=20 insurance--at a much higher premium. Those with under 100 hours in type ar= e=20 probably screwed. Still happy? BTW --did you know an Eclipse insurance pol= icy=20 is cheaper than a IVP policy?

Think because you have a Legacy or a=20= 360=20 you won't see an insurance bump?--think again. The IV & IVP is o nly 3= 0%=20 of the accident total. Keep piling up 320's, 360's, ES's and Legacies and=20= you=20 will be in the same insurance boat. Speaking of totals, as of 2004=20 Lancair had sold 1870 kits (see Lancair website). 1077 Lancairs are curren= tly=20 registered with the FAA. There have been over 150 Lancair accidents in the= =20 U.S. and elsewhere. I will breakdown the accidents, causes, types, etc.=20 tomorrow. If Marv is kind enough, I will post the OSH powerpoint on the LM= L=20 website. Decide for yourselves what is causing the accidents.

So bo= ttom=20 line: if you have a IV or IVP the group B pilots will likely cost you over= =20 $5000 this year. Thank them next time you see them! I know I=20 will.




It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your tr= avel deal here.
-------------------------------1220194019--