X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.4] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3100672 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:27 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.bbf.346e6992 (37062) for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.144]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB048-90c648b8ad752e5; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:21 -0400 Received: from mblk-d49 (mblk-d49.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.233]) by smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.12) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA014-5bad48b8ad71d2; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:17 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy video X-Original-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:17 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 68.188.79.57 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CAD85D850A12B0_FD0_55E3_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38575-STANDARD Received: from 68.188.79.57 by mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.233) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:16:17 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CAD85D83FA4546-FD0-2A41@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CAD85D850A12B0_FD0_55E3_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" David & Jon, Apparently you do not know what is "legal" so here is 14 CFR 91.119. IMHO, a= high speed low altitude pass for thrill purposes or=C2=A0=C2=A0for video pu= rposes is not exactly "legal". The regulations says "except for takeoff or l= anding". Clearly there was no intent to land & =C2=A0obviously you had alrea= dy taken off. Therefore any flight below the altitudes descibed below run th= e risk of being illegal. Again, in Jon's pass over the houses it appeared he= was below 500' AGL. Legal? Not even close. All it was was was a cheap video= camera and a soundtrack. Should have been set to the music from Topgun. Oh=20= wait, another Lancair guy already did that one. Secondly, if you both think it is "perfectly safe" read Chuck Brenner's=C2= =A0NTSB accident report at=C2=A0http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id= =3D20040916X01440&ntsbno=3DFTW04LA236&akey=3D1=C2=A0 What was Chuck doing ri= ght before he died? A low pass. Chuck's dead but we are still passing the ha= t for his widow and orphans. Perfectly safe, David? No such thing in an airplane. Only a fool would think= flying is "perfectly safe". Flying has risk, Lot's of risk. It has so much=20= risk that I have two friends in an hospital bed in New Hampshire tonight in=20= serious condition from a plane accident there. I've been to more pilot funer= als than I care to remember and this kind of stuff is perfectly safe? Perfec= tly safe, my ass.=20 David & Jon I urge you both to either change your flying attitude or sell yo= ur Lancairs before I am citing your NTSB report her e. Best Regards, Jeff Designated Pilot Examiner Section 91.119: Minimum safe altitudes: General. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircr= aft below the following altitudes: (a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency land= ing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface. (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settle= ment, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet ab= ove the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the air= craft. (c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surfa= ce, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the=20= aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, veh= icle, or structure. -----Original Message----- From: Taylor, David To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 6:11 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy video Here here jon, =C2=A0 The passes on youtube are all perfectly legal =E2=80=93 directly over runway= s =E2=80=93 they are called =E2=80=9Clow approaches=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 you a= re exactly right.=C2=A0 In fact the guys doing these things are the better p= ilots among us.=C2=A0 The problem and cause of accidents over and over and o= ver is lack of skills =E2=80=93 its pilots who are NOT practicing basic skil= ls=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6. =C2=A0 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of marv@= lancair.net Sent: Thu, August 28, 2008 14:53 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Legacy video =C2=A0 Posted for "Jon Socolof" : =C2=A0Hi,=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I've never posted on the LML before but I'd like to respond to those u= nhappy =C2=A0with the Legacy videos.=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I posted a video of my Legacy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhtM9K3B= wXbU and =C2=A0what you see is a "low approach" directly over the runway a maneuver t= hat is =C2=A0perfectly legal and safe. Everybody I have met that has seen the video= has =C2=A0enjoyed it.=C2=A0=C2=A0I'm sorry that some feel it demonstrates reckle= ss behavior, I =C2=A0simply disagree. I built my airplane to enjoy and I'm proud of the vid= eo we =C2=A0shot.=C2=A0=C2=A0For those that may be unhappy with my video I'd rathe= r you just =C2=A0appreciate it for what it is and go on your way without comment.=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jon Socolof =C2=A0 =C2=A0Legacy 212XP =C2=A0 -- =C2=A0 For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----------MB_8CAD85D850A12B0_FD0_55E3_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" David & Jon,

Apparently you do not know what is "legal" so here is 14 CFR 91.119. IMHO, a= high speed low altitude pass for thrill purposes or  for video pu= rposes is not exactly "legal". The regulations says "except for takeoff or l= anding". Clearly there was no intent to land &  obviously you had a= lready taken off. Therefore any flight below the altitudes descibed below ru= n the risk of being illegal. Again, in Jon's pass over the houses it appeare= d he was below 500' AGL. Legal? Not even close. All it was was was a cheap v= ideo camera and a soundtrack. Should have been set to the music from Topgun.= Oh wait, another Lancair guy already did that one.

Secondly, if you both think it is "perfectly safe" read Chuck Brenner's = ;NTSB accident report at http://www.nts= b.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=3D20040916X01440&ntsbno=3DFTW04LA236&ake= y=3D1  What was Chuck doing right before he died? A low pass. Chuck= 's dead but we are still passing the hat for his widow and orphans.

Perfectly safe, David? No such thing in an airplane. Only a fool would think= flying is "perfectly safe". Flying has risk, Lot's of risk. It has so much=20= risk that I have two friends in an hospital bed in New Hampshire tonight in=20= serious condition from a plane accident there. I've been to more pilot funer= als than I care to remember and this kind of stuff is perfectly safe? Perfec= tly safe, my ass.

David & Jon I urge you both to either change your flying attitude or sell your Lanc= airs before I am citing your NTSB report here.

Best Regards,

Jeff

Designated Pilot Examiner

Section 91.119: Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no perso= n may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an em= ergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.<= /div>
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, tow= n, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1= ,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 fee= t of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet abo= ve the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those= cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person,= vessel, vehicle, or structure.




-----Original Message-----
From: Taylor, David <dtaylor@crescentpark.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 6:11 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy video

Here here jon,
 
The passes on youtube are all perfectly lega= l =E2=80=93 directly over runways =E2=80=93 they are called =E2=80=9Clow app= roaches=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 you are exactly right.  In fact the guys doi= ng these things are the better pilots among us.  The problem and cause=20= of accidents over and over and over is lack of skills =E2=80=93 its pilots w= ho are NOT practicing basic skills=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.
 
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of marv@lancair.net
Sent: Thu, August 28, 2008 14:53
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Legacy video
 
Posted for "Jon Socolof" <jsocolof@ershire.com>:

 Hi,
 
 
 
 I've never posted on the LML before but I'd like to respond to those u= nhappy
 with the Legacy videos.
 
 
 
 I posted a video of my Legacy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhtM9K3BwXb= U and
 what you see is a "low approach" directly over the runway a maneuver t= hat is
 perfectly legal and safe. Everybody I have met that has seen the video= has
 enjoyed it.  I'm sorry that some feel it demonstrates reckle= ss behavior, I
 simply disagree. I built my airplane to enjoy and I'm proud of the vid= eo we
 shot.  For those that may be unhappy with my video I'd rathe= r you just
 appreciate it for what it is and go on your way without comment.
 
 
 
 Jon Socolof
 
 Legacy 212XP
 
--
 
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