X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:29:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.143.99] (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3081143 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:36 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.c2a.32f0097e (37557) for ; Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.141]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB036-92b548a8d4ef142; Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:31 -0400 Received: from mblk-d25 (mblk-d25.mblk.aol.com [205.188.149.17]) by smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.12) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMA021-5c4b48a8d4e9210; Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:25 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] some thoughts on accidents X-Original-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:25 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.90.168 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CACEEBA35A6A0C_15CC_3FA1_mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38265-STANDARD Received: from 24.107.90.168 by mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:48:25 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CACEEBA32F7FDC-15CC-1F88@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CACEEBA35A6A0C_15CC_3FA1_mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bill, I agree with your comments regarding the accidents our group has been experi= encing. With one exception, all the Lancair accident pilots in the last 12 m= onths are very low time in type -one gentleman only owned the aircraft for a= day while several others owned the plane for a month. Many had no Lancair s= pecific training from recognized Lancair instructors. Over 40% of the Lancai= r accidents involve pilots with less than 200 hours in type.=20 The poor GA accident record is a reflection of many factors including the la= ck of good initial and recurrent training and is not unique to Lancair-- it=20= is endemic in General Aviation. You only have to read the daily faa.gov acci= dent list to see the large numbers of pilots who run off the runway on takeo= ff or landing (over half of all accidents). I frequently review accident rep= orts where the accident pilot had not flown with an instructor on years-- mu= ch less the required flight review every 24 monhs. Why are these pilots relu= ctant to get good training? Cost? Availability? Schedule? Ego?=20 If we as a group do not turn around our accident rate no one will be able to= insure a IV or IVP or turbine for any price (much less the 1000 hour pilot=20= with a private pilot certificate and 100 hours in complex) and most importan= tly we will continue to lose good friends and associates in this business.=20 As I said at Oshkosh, we have to start acting like professional pilots and i= nsist our brethren do so likewise.=20 Best Regards, Jeff Edwards -----O riginal Message----- From: Bill Maddox To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:12 am Subject: [LML] some thoughts on accidents =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.komonews.com/news/local/26194004.html=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 N 45EL=20 =C2=A0From Bolder, Co=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 My thoughts=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This accident was about 60 miles north - north west of me=20 The reports from campers in the area said their were large thunder storms in= the area.=20 =C2=A0 My thoughts=20 Here is another crash we could learn what not to do but seems we forget to f= ollow up or it gets swept under the rug with delays in the Faa final reports= . I personally feel we as a group of lancair Pilots and builders need to get= a handle on training and what not to do according to a long list of crashes= . I would suggest a stall device as the first tool of defense and calibrate=20= it ASAP in all the Lancair planes =C2=A0=C2=A0. Take a look at our fuel syst= ems, contamination, Fuel selectors ect. and upgrade as needed. Check all asp= ects of our planes, welds, flight controls and push rods Yes I know this is=20= on an annual inspection but do we really look at this objectively. As some o= f these planes are built to our own standards and we are the factory. Anothe= r pair of eyes and a brain not attached so close to the project to confirm=20= =C2=A0proper build technique would be a good idea=C2=A0 say partial completi= on inspections =C2=A0and last a real training program with people Like Charl= ey K=C2=A0 , why I picked Charley is he is also a builder of a 4p as well, =C2=A0some=20= of the instructors are not and don=E2=80=99t have a clue as to how a lancair= got from a wood create to a plane on the tarmac .Some say this isn=E2=80= =99t important but I do [ my own personal thoughts on instruction =C2=A0]=20= =C2=A0 =C2=A0It really bothers me to hear a person is scared of his plane like in s= everal post in the last lml. I feel there is a lack of some training in the=20= Lancair and confidence in several areas of ground training in past flying as= well and knowing the plane you fly. I remember the [kick the tire and light= the fires] doesn=E2=80=99t hold true in high performance aircraft for almos= t all of us or any plane. I have read of weather related deaths, mechanical=20= accidents, defective parts related accidents and just not a lot of common si= nce flying in single engine planes. We as a group really need to clean up ou= r act sorry to say. This accident=C2=A0 just north of me has no relation to=20= any of these problems I suggested until the final report from the faa states= what was the cause . Basically I would like to see we as a group take some=20= control over our problem collectively. I have lost several friends from stup= id things, like flying in a snow storm, flying with a known fuel issue and a= n engine problem at the same time ending up short of the runway out of fuel,= running out of fuel on short final another, trying to land on a narrow runw= ay without being experienced in the=20 issues associated with it , hitting a dike on short final at an unfamiliar r= unway . These items describe a group of people in my Washington ST. lancair=20= builders group. I also see a problem with building and flying, some pilot /b= uilders seem to drop the proficiency of flying skills while building the pla= ne and the opposite really needs occur. I also see a large percentage of ine= xperienced pilots jumping into these planes without ever flying above 10K le= t alone flying a complex single. Most of the weather is from 15k to 45K abov= e and this plane without a set of radar eyes and experience needs to be on t= he ground during the bad weather. The plane flies fast and weather comes muc= h faster at 20k and above. We now have several exceptional panels that have=20= some sort of small delayed weather info but that isn=E2=80=99t telling the w= hole picture . We really need a common since button on the panel I guess.= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Bill Maddox =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----------MB_8CACEEBA35A6A0C_15CC_3FA1_mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Bill,

I agree with your comments regarding the accidents our group has been experi= encing. With one exception, all the Lancair accident pilots in the last 12 m= onths are very low time in type -one gentleman only owned the aircraft for a= day while several others owned the plane for a month. Many had no Lancair s= pecific training from recognized Lancair instructors. Over 40% of the Lancai= r accidents involve pilots with less than 200 hours in type.

The poor GA accident record is a reflection of many factors including the la= ck of good initial and recurrent training and is not unique to Lancair-- it=20= is endemic in General Aviation. You only have to read the daily faa.gov acci= dent list to see the large numbers of pilots who run off the runway on takeo= ff or landing (over half of all accidents). I frequently review accident rep= orts where the accident pilot had not flown with an instructor on years-- mu= ch less the required flight review every 24 monhs. Why are these pilots relu= ctant to get good training? Cost? Availability? Schedule? Ego?

If we as a group do not turn around our accident rate no one will be able to= insure a IV or IVP or turbine for any price (much less the 1000 hour pilot=20= with a private pilot certificate and 100 hours in complex) and most importan= tly we will continue to lose good friends and associates in this business. <= br>
As I said at Oshkosh, we have to start acting like professional pilots and i= nsist our brethren do so likewise.

Best Reg ards,

Jeff Edwards


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Maddox <reddog@smwireless.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:12 am
Subject: [LML] some thoughts on accidents

 =
 
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/26194004.html
 
 
N 45EL
 From Bolder, Co
 
 
My thoughts
 
 This accident was about 60 miles north - no= rth west of me
The reports from campers in the area said their w= ere large thunder storms in the area.
 
My thoughts
Here is another crash we could learn what not to=20= do but seems we forget to follow up or it gets swept under the rug with dela= ys in the Faa final reports. I personally feel we as a group of lancair Pilo= ts and builders need to get a handle on training and what not to do accordin= g to a long list of crashes. I would suggest a stall device as the first too= l of defense and calibrate it ASAP in all the Lancair planes   . T= ake a look at our fuel systems, contamination, Fuel selectors ect. and upgra= de as needed. Check all aspects of our planes, welds, flight controls and pu= sh rods Yes I know this is on an annual inspection but do we really look at=20= this objectively. As some of these planes are built to our own standa= rds and we are the factory. Another pair of eyes and a brain not attached so= close to the project to confirm  proper build technique would be a goo= d idea  say partial completion inspections  and last a real traini= ng program with people Like Charley K  , why I picked Charley is he is=20= also a builder of a 4p as well,  some of the instructors are not and do= n=E2=80=99t have a clue as to how a lancair got from a wood create to a plan= e on the tarmac .Some say this isn=E2=80=99t important but I do [ my own per= so nal thoughts on instruction  ]  
 It really bothers me to hear a person is scared of his pla= ne like in several post in the last lml. I feel there is a lack of some trai= ning in the Lancair and confidence in several areas of ground training in pa= st flying as well and knowing the plane you fly. I remember the [kick the ti= re and light the fires] doesn=E2=80=99t hold true in high performance aircra= ft for almost all of us or any plane. I have read of weather related deaths,= mechanical accidents, defective parts related accidents and just not a lot=20= of common since flying in single engine planes. We as a group really need to= clean up our act sorry to say. This accident  just north of me has no=20= relation to any of these problems I suggested until the final report from th= e faa states what was the cause . Basically I would like to see we as a grou= p take some control over our problem collectively. I have lost several frien= ds from stupid things, like flying in a snow storm, flying with a known fuel= issue and an engine problem at the same time ending up short of the runway=20= out of fuel, running out of fuel on short final another, trying to land on a= narrow runway without being experienced in the issues associated with it ,=20= hitting a dike on short final at an unfamiliar runway . These items describe= a group of peo ple in my Washington ST. lancair builders group. I also see a problem with b= uilding and flying, some pilot /builders seem to drop the proficiency of fly= ing skills while building the plane and the opposite really needs occur. I a= lso see a large percentage of inexperienced pilots jumping into these planes= without ever flying above 10K let alone flying a complex single. Most of th= e weather is from 15k to 45K above and this plane without a set of radar eye= s and experience needs to be on the ground during the bad weather. The plane= flies fast and weather comes much faster at 20k and above. We now have seve= ral exceptional panels that have some sort of small delayed weather info but= that isn=E2=80=99t telling the whole picture . We really need a common sinc= e button on the panel I guess.   Bill Maddox    &nb= sp; 
 
It'= s time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the= grade on AOL Shopping.
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