Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #48033
From: <vtailjeff@aol.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Accidents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:16:41 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Matt,

I do not have nay information on the accident pilots as to wheter or not they have been throuhg any Lancair specific training-except for the Provo, UT crash. The owner/ pilot had been through HPAT less than a month before the accident but then proceeded to ignore the sage advice given.

In my experience as an accident investigator-- many of the pilots do not get type specific training, are not current, etc. One case recently involved a pilot with one flight review in 30 years of flying and infrequent FAA medical exams.. The ones that do take the trainig are often flying against very sound advice.

These accidents affect your pocket book. Insurance for the IVP (if you can get it) will certainly be much higher.

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: m miriani <lancair33@yahoo.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 6:51 am
Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents

Jeff
 
Any info on these recent lancair accidents in regards to how many of the pilots had some type of annual HPAT or similar training, or any at all in their IVP? I have been to school twice over the years and havent even finished the aircraft yet. Most valuable training I have had and opened my eyes about how the lancairs respond without thrust. It is a managable handfull. I wo uldnt consider flying it without annual training.
 
Matt Miriani
IVP Hoping to fly this summer

--- On Sun, 7/13/08, VTAILJEFF@aol.com <VTAILJEFF@aol.com> wrote:
From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com <VTAILJEFF@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 1:14 PM

Charlie has great advice here. We could probably cut the IVP accident rate by 40% if we just stayed out of thunderstorms and towering Cu. You are NOT going to fly over these monsters. Not in a IVP-not ever. So your options are to use your nexrad to plot an end around the lines that develop in the summer or stay below the bases and avoid the rain shafts.
 
You should not be using NEXRAD to fly between cells that you cannot visually see. You have to be VFR to stay safe when operating close to these things. Some of them are moving at over 60 knots. So if you have a time lag of up to 10 minutes the cell may be ten miles away from where it is depicted or more. As Charlie said, the NEXRAD tells you the direction of movement, whi ch is very important in your decision making. Stay upwind of these things or plan a very wide excursion if you have to go on the downwind side.
 
Descisions to go between cells in a line should not be taken lightly. Can you see all the way through the break to blue sky on the other side? How wide is the break between cells? Is the break opening or closing? How can you tell? What are the tops of the cu in the break? What is on the other side? Another cell? Is there any lightning close? What is you escape route if you poke your nose in it and it closes up?
 
I fly with WSI on my Chelton and XM on my Garmin 396 (belt and suspenders). There are differences between the two nexrad images that are important. One may be painting orange while the other is green. I choose the most conservative route of the tow shown.
 
If you are planning on a trip outside the continental U.S. say Canada or Alaska or the Bahamas-- the coverage does not extend very far outside of CONUS. Two Lancairs found that out the hard way--both fatal, one this year.
 
I was on the other side of the storm that Tom Brady flew into. I landed in St. Louis twenty minutes before he went down. Ten to fifteen minutes after I landed the storm passed and the tornado sirens went off. Tom Brady flew into that. I talked to the FSDO here about his accident -- his20wreckage was scattered over four miles. He was flying in the low FL 20's when he penetrated the storm.
 
Living in St. Louis  has made every trip this year one with thunderstorms. I have not topped one yet.
 
Be careful out there!
 
Jeff
 
In a message dated 7/12/2008 7:47:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, charliekohler@yahoo.com writes:
 
Hi Colyn,
IMHO the safest approach to summertime towering cumulus is to stay VMC. On top- is best if the air is not electrically charged -- if not able-- go down to 3000 feet-- below the bases (VMC) (check terrain clearance)-- and always be vigilant for lightning and hail on the downwind side--
yes--stay out of the green (if only to protect your paint).
And in regards to diversions-- go early when the heading corrections are 10 to 20°. Not when you're in a box canyon and you need a 90° to a 180° course change. You'll notice that large holes and openings from 100 miles out will close up by the time you get there. And it would've=2 0been better to take that 20° heading cut to go around the up wind side before you got there. Saves time too.
 
And  Thanks--
Charlie K.
See me on the Web at  www.Lancair-IV.com


----- Original Message ----
From: Colyn Case at earthlink <colyncase@earthlink.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:11:54 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents

Charlie, thanks for this.
 
Are you proposing no IMC up high period or just staying 2X recommended distance from what you see on xm?  (maybe even staying out of all green if you are high and imc).
 
Colyn
 




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