X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:16:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.137.3] (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3026853 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:45:32 -0400 Received: from RMiller904@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id q.cc4.3601f962 (30738) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:45:20 -0400 (EDT) From: RMiller904@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:45:20 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Accidents X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216136720" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1216136720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would love to talk to you about flying your plane this summer Jeff. Check=20= =20 out my site and see what you think, I have not had a bad result yet, knock o= n =20 wood. LOL Ron =20 _www.ronsflying.com_ (http://www.ronsflying.com/)=20 In a message dated 7/15/2008 7:51:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 lancair33@yahoo.com writes: Jeff=20 Any info on these recent lancair accidents in regards to how many of the=20 pilots had some type of annual HPAT or similar training, or any at all in t= heir=20 IVP? I have been to school twice over the years and havent even finished th= e=20 aircraft yet. Most valuable training I have had and opened my eyes about ho= w=20 the lancairs respond without thrust. It is a managable handfull. I wouldnt=20 consider flying it without annual training.=20 Matt Miriani=20 IVP Hoping to fly this summer --- On Sun, 7/13/08, VTAILJEFF@aol.com wrote: From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 1:14 PM Charlie has great advice here. We could probably cut the IVP accident rate=20 by 40% if we just stayed out of thunderstorms and towering Cu. You are NOT=20 going to fly over these monsters. Not in a IVP-not ever. So your options ar= e to=20 use your nexrad to plot an end around the lines that develop in the summer=20= or=20 stay below the bases and avoid the rain shafts.=20 =20 You should not be using NEXRAD to fly between cells that you cannot visuall= y=20 see. You have to be VFR to stay safe when operating close to these things.=20 Some of them are moving at over 60 knots. So if you have a time lag of up t= o=20 10 minutes the cell may be ten miles away from where it is depicted or more= .=20 As Charlie said, the NEXRAD tells you the direction of movement, which is v= ery=20 important in your decision making. Stay upwind of these things or plan a=20 very wide excursion if you have to go on the downwind side. =20 Descisions to go between cells in a line should not be taken lightly. Can=20 you see all the way through the break to blue sky on the other side? How wi= de=20 is the break between cells? Is the break opening or closing? How can you te= ll?=20 What are the tops of the cu in the break? What is on the other side? Anothe= r=20 cell? Is there any lightning close? What is you escape route if you poke=20 your nose in it and it closes up?=20 =20 I fly with WSI on my Chelton and XM on my Garmin 396 (belt and suspenders).= =20 There are differences between the two nexrad images that are important. One= =20 may be painting orange while the other is green. I choose the most=20 conservative route of the tow shown. =20 If you are planning on a trip outside the continental U.S. say Canada or=20 Alaska or the Bahamas-- the coverage does not extend very far outside of CO= NUS.=20 Two Lancairs found that out the hard way--both fatal, one this year. =20 I was on the other side of the storm that Tom Brady flew into. I landed in=20 St. Louis twenty minutes before he went down. Ten to fifteen minutes after=20= I=20 landed the storm passed and the tornado sirens went off. Tom Brady flew int= o=20 that. I talked to the FSDO here about his accident -- his wreckage was=20 scattered over four miles. He was flying in the low FL 20's when he penetra= ted the=20 storm.=20 =20 Living in St. Louis has made every trip this year one with thunderstorms.=20= I=20 have not topped one yet.=20 =20 Be careful out there! =20 Jeff =20 =20 In a message dated 7/12/2008 7:47:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 charliekohler@yahoo.com writes: =20 Hi Colyn, =20 IMHO the safest approach to summertime towering cumulus is to stay VMC. On=20 top- is best if the air is not electrically charged -- if not able-- go dow= n=20 to 3000 feet-- below the bases (VMC) (check terrain clearance)-- and always= be=20 vigilant for lightning and hail on the downwind side-- yes--stay out of the green (if only to protect your paint). =20 And in regards to diversions-- go early when the heading corrections are 10= =20 to 20=B0. Not when you're in a box canyon and you need a 90=B0 to a 180=B0=20= course=20 change. You'll notice that large holes and openings from 100 miles out will= =20 close up by the time you get there. And it would've been better to take tha= t=20 20=B0 heading cut to go around the up wind side before you got there. Saves= time=20 too.=20 And Thanks-- Charlie K. See me on the Web at _www.Lancair-IV.com_ (http://www.lancair-iv.com/)=20 ----- Original Message ---- From: Colyn Case at earthlink To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:11:54 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents Charlie, thanks for this. =20 Are you proposing no IMC up high period or just staying 2X recommended=20 distance from what you see on xm? (maybe even staying out of all green if=20= you are=20 high and imc). =20 Colyn =20 =20 ____________________________________ Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in=20 your area - _Check out TourTracker.com_=20 (http://www.tourtracker.com/?NCID=3Daolmus00050000000112) ! **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music= =20 scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! =20 (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=3Daolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1216136720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would love to talk to you about flying your plane this summer Jeff. C= heck=20 out my site and see what you think, I have not had a bad result yet, knock o= n=20 wood. LOL   Ron
 
www.ronsflying.com
 =20
 
In a message dated 7/15/2008 7:51:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 lancair33@yahoo.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>

Jeff

 

Any info on these recent lancair accidents in regards to how many= of=20 the pilots had some type of annual HPAT or similar trainin= g,=20 or any at all in their IVP? I have been to school twice over the yea= rs=20 and havent even finished the aircraft yet. Most valuable training I=20= have=20 had and opened my eyes about how the lancairs respond without thrust= . It=20 is a managable handfull. I wouldnt consider flying it without annual= =20 training.

 

Matt Miriani

IVP Hoping to fly this summer

--- On Sun, 7/13/08,=20 VTAILJEFF@aol.com <VTAILJEFF@aol.com> wrote:
From:=20 VTAILJEFF@aol.com <VTAILJEFF@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re:=20 Accidents
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2= 008,=20 1:14 PM

Charlie has great advice here. We could probably cu= t=20 the IVP accident rate by 40% if we just stayed out of thunderstorm= s=20 and towering Cu. You are NOT going to fly over these monsters. Not= in=20 a IVP-not ever. So your options are to use your nexrad to plot an=20= end=20 around the lines that develop in the summer or stay below the base= s=20 and avoid the rain shafts.
 
You should not be using NEXRAD to fly between cells that you=20 cannot visually see. You have to be VFR to stay safe when operatin= g=20 close to these things. Some of them are moving at over 60 knots. S= o if=20 you have a time lag of up to 10 minutes the cell may be ten miles=20= away=20 from where it is depicted or more. As Charlie said, the NEXRAD tel= ls=20 you the direction of movement, which is very important in your=20 decision making. Stay upwind of these things or plan a very wide=20 excursion if you have to go on the downwind side.
 
Descisions to go between cells in a line should not be t= aken=20 lightly. Can you see all the way through the break to blue sky on=20= the=20 other side? How wide is the break between cells? Is the break open= ing=20 or closing? How can you tell? What are the tops of the c= u in=20 the break? What is on the other side? Another cell? Is there any=20 lightning close? What is you escape route if you poke your nose in= it=20 and it closes up?
 
I fly with WSI on my Chelton and XM on my Garmin 396 (belt an= d=20 suspenders). There are differences between the two nexrad ima= ges=20 that are important. One may be painting orange while the other is=20 green. I choose the most conservative route of the tow shown.
 
If you are planning on a trip outside the continental U.S. sa= y=20 Canada or Alaska or the Bahamas-- the coverage does not extend ver= y=20 far outside of CONUS. Two Lancairs found that out the hard way--bo= th=20 fatal, one this year.
 
I was on the other side of the storm that Tom Brady flew into= . I=20 landed in St. Louis twenty minutes before he went down. Ten to fif= teen=20 minutes after I landed the storm passed and the tornado sirens wen= t=20 off. Tom Brady flew into that. I talked to the FSDO here about his= =20 accident -- his wreckage was scattered over four miles. He was fly= ing=20 in the low FL 20's when he penetrated the storm.
 
Living in St. Louis  has made every trip this year one w= ith=20 thunderstorms. I have not topped one yet.
 
Be careful out there!
 
Jeff
 
In a message dated 7/12/2008 7:47:29 P.M. Central Daylight Ti= me,=20 charliekohler@yahoo.com writes:
 
Hi Colyn,

IMHO the safest approach to summertime towering cumulus is to= =20 stay VMC. On top- is best if the air is not electrically charged= --=20 if not able-- go down to 3000 feet-- below the bases (VMC) (chec= k=20 terrain clearance)-- and always be vigilant for lightning and ha= il=20 on the downwind side--
yes--stay out of the green (if only to= =20 protect your paint).

And in regards to diversions-- go early when the heading=20 corrections are 10 to 20=B0. Not when you're in a box canyon and= you=20 need a 90=B0 to a 180=B0 course change. You'll notice that large= holes=20 and openings from 100 miles out will close up by the time you ge= t=20 there. And it would've been better to take that 20=B0 heading cu= t to=20 go around the up wind side before you got there. Saves time too.=

 

And  Thanks--

Charlie K.
See me=20 on the Web at  www.Lancair-IV.com

-----=20 Original Message ----
From: Colyn Case at earthlink=20 <colyncase@earthlink.net>
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:11:54=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents

Charlie, thanks for this.
 
Are you proposing no IMC up hig= h period=20 or just staying 2X recommended distance from what you see on=20 xm?  (maybe even staying out of all green if you are high a= nd=20 imc).
 
Colyn
 



Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music sce= ne=20 in your area - Check out=20 TourTracker.com!




Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the=20= live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! -------------------------------1216136720--