X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:20:13 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.143.99] (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2924235 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 May 2008 22:51:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.99; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id q.cc4.301be70b (29678) for ; Thu, 15 May 2008 22:50:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:50:55 EDT Subject: Crash, ... and training. Engine out on takeoff. X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1210906255" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1210906255 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Dom, Bill, et al, =20 I love this stuff....... The crucial part is to have a plan and review it=20 just before taking the runway. For me there is the fixed part and the=20 environmental conditions part. Fixed: Engine stoppage on takeoff below 700 U.S. feet AGL, use any=20 reasonable surface within 30 degrees left or right of straight ahead as the= return to=20 earth target, pitch to 105 KIAS and prop to coarse unless there is room to=20 set down on the departure runway. Adjust anything else if there is time=20 (speed, gear, flaps). =20 Environmental Conditions: review surrounding terrain, runway length, airpor= t=20 altitude, weather conditions, etc. for plan modifications. =20 The general characteristics of my takeoffs are: Lift off around 80 KIAS (2740 RPM, WOT) Positive climb, retract gear (by the time that is done, speed is about 100 =20 KIAS, 100-200 feet AGL) Flaps retract, adjust for nose down pitch (when done, speed is about 120 =20 KIAS, 300-400 AGL) At 700 AGL, RPM to 2600, WOT, maintain 135 to 140 KIAS, climb rate is about=20= =20 1500-1800 fpm. Continue climb to target altitude, leaning to takeoff EGTs throughout climb=20= =20 (about 1290 to 1300 -- my max EGTs are 1430-1440), Level out, after reaching the usual cruise speed for target altitude, reduc= e=20 MAP to 25 or run WOT, reduce RPM to 2480 (sweet spot), probably enrichen =20 mixture a bit to cruise EGTs of 1320. =20 Dom, your numbers are very realistic to me and are close to worse case on=20 the runway length you gave. The most common takeoff from my home airport=20 (KARR) is from runway 27 (6100 feet). I think I wouldn't be halfway down t= hat=20 runway under the conditions you mention and dropping the gear and flaps mig= ht=20 allow me to set back down on the runway. After all, if I go off the end I'= ll=20 just beat my way through the REIL light hardware for the ILS 9 approach. =20 There are farm fields within 30 degrees to the right and light manufacturin= g=20 plants within 30 degrees to the left. =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 5/15/2008 2:59:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com writes: Dom, it's not even debatable at 200'. I'm comfortable with 500', but not=20 much less. I can promise that if I did make a turn, I would not be a stall-= spin=20 victim. Good thought though. My field is 3200 feet long and I'm not at 500' AGL=20 until well past the end of the runway. Good news -- I've got a good road wi= th=20 very little traffic in front of me. Fly safe -- Bill =20 ____________________________________ To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:27:03 -0400 From: domcrain@tpg.com.au Subject: [LML] Re: Crash, fueling nozzles and training OK Bill =E2=80=93 You=E2=80=99re on the take-off R/W length 1000 metres (3= 280=E2=80=99). You=E2=80=99re=20 at say, 200=E2=80=99 passing 100 KIAS Gear is UP, Flaps retracted =E2=80= =93 engine dead cuts.=20 Where to?=20 I think your scenario is fine if you have a significant amount of breathing= =20 gas under, but then =E2=80=93 can you still make the airfield?=20 Your scenario is seriously debatable, I believe.=20 Cheers mate=20 Dom=20 VH-CZJ **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family=20 favorites at AOL Food. =20 (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=3Daolfod00030000000001) -------------------------------1210906255 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Dom, Bill, et al,
 
I love this stuff.......  The crucial part is to have a plan and=20 review it just before taking the runway.  For me there is the fi= xed=20 part and the environmental conditions part.
Fixed: Engine stoppage on takeoff below 700 U.S. feet=20 AGL, use any reasonable surface within 30 degrees left or right of= =20 straight ahead as the return to earth target, pitch to 105 KIAS and prop to=20 coarse unless there is room to set down on the departure runway.&n= bsp;=20 Adjust anything else if there is time (speed, gear, flaps).
 
Environmental Conditions: review surrounding terrain, runway length,=20 airport altitude, weather conditions, etc. for plan modifications.
 
The general characteristics of my takeoffs are:
Lift off around 80 KIAS (2740 RPM, WOT)
Positive climb, retract gear (by the time that is done, speed is about=20= 100=20 KIAS, 100-200 feet AGL)
Flaps retract, adjust for nose down pitch (when done, speed is about 12= 0=20 KIAS, 300-400 AGL)
At 700 AGL, RPM to 2600, WOT, maintain 135 to 140 KIAS, climb rate is a= bout=20 1500-1800 fpm.
Continue climb to target altitude, leaning to takeoff EGTs throughout c= limb=20 (about 1290 to 1300 -- my max EGTs are 1430-1440),
Level out, after reaching the usual cruise speed for target altitude,=20 reduce MAP to 25 or run WOT, reduce RPM to 2480 (sweet spot), probably enric= hen=20 mixture a bit to cruise EGTs of 1320.
 
Dom, your numbers are very realistic to me and are close to worse=20= case=20 on the runway length you gave.  The most common takeoff from my home=20 airport (KARR) is from runway 27 (6100 feet).  I think I wouldn't=20= be=20 halfway down that runway under the conditions you mention and dropping=20= the=20 gear and flaps might allow me to set back down on the runway.  After al= l,=20 if I go off the end I'll just beat my way through the REIL light hardwa= re=20 for the ILS 9 approach.  There are farm fields within 30 degrees to the= =20 right and light manufacturing plants within 30 degrees to the left.
 
 
In a message dated 5/15/2008 2:59:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
Dom, it's not even debatable at 200'. I'm=20 comfortable with 500', but not much less. I can promise that if I did make= a=20 turn, I would not be a stall-spin victim.

Good thought though. My f= ield=20 is 3200 feet long and I'm not at 500' AGL until well past the end of the=20 runway. Good news -- I've got a good road with very little traffic in fron= t of=20 me.

Fly safe -- Bill


To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:27:03 -0400
Fr= om:=20 domcrain@tpg.com.au
Subject: [LML] Re: Crash, fueling nozzles and=20 training

OK Bill =E2=80=93 You=E2=80=99re=20= on the take-off =20 R/W length 1000 metres (3280=E2=80=99). You=E2=80=99re at say, 200=E2= =80=99 passing 100 KIAS Gear is=20 UP, Flaps retracted =E2=80=93 engine dead cuts. Where to?<= /P>

I think your scenario is fine if=20= you=20 have a significant amount of breathing gas under, but then =E2=80=93 can= you still=20 make the airfield?

Your scenario is seriously debata= ble, I=20 believe.

Cheers mate

Dom

VH-CZJ




Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on fa= mily favorites at AOL Food.
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