X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:53:10 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.61] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.11) with ESMTP id 2290108 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:33:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.69.195.61; envelope-from=pbricker@earthlink.net Received: from user-vcaunc4.dsl.mindspring.com ([216.175.93.132] helo=paulrzm5oth3zt) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1IQ8g8-0001au-00 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:32:52 -0400 From: "Paul Bricker" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: Subject: RE: [LML] Fwd: Ram Air Valve - More Loose Screws!! X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:32:48 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <004401c7e9ba$fb91e560$6601a8c0@paulrzm5oth3zt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C7E980.4F330D60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcfpmvK8WWFBUAb+SXCcPiPG8wytRgAHbFMg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C7E980.4F330D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik, I could not see any visible damage to the exhuast valve on my #5 when it ate a screw but when tested by the cylinder shop the exhuast valve was leaking due to damage from the screw exiting. Even if the valve was fine the shop ground off all the burrs and high points caused by the screw to prevent them from becoming a source of heat that causes the mixture to ignite early. Preignition will quickly ruin your day and the engine. Maybe I missed it. Did your friend pull #2 cyl and have it checked and cleaned up? I not an A&P, but I would recommend it. I did the R&R myself for the cost of a few gaskets. The local shop charges a flat $300 for the job. That, plus the cost of any cylinder work is cheap insurance, in my humble opinion. Your fix sounds like a good approach. My Ram Air is still off the plane while I decided how to not have a repeat episode. Your fix sounds like a good one. Good luck Paul Bricker N63PB _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of asw20747@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:43 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Fwd: Ram Air Valve - More Loose Screws!! -----Original Message----- From: asw20747@aol.com To: lml-digest@lancaironline.net Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 9:18 am Subject: Ram Air Valve - More Loose Screws!! Just a heads up the group...... The (2) 6-32 Allen Cap Screws that hold the butterfly ram air valve on the Legacy can and DO come loose!!! (see previous post with an ES also) This didn't happen to me directly but another Legacy that I'm well aware of. We have been checking these screws, with a small flashlight and a mirror inserted in the tube opening, about every other flight. On this particular Legacy, the screws looked to be fully seated with ALL the threads showing on the back side and then on a subsequent check, 3 days (2 flights) later, we found one screw missing and the other one half way backed out. When they come loose, it apparently happens pretty fast!!! Borescope inspection revealed that this screw ended up in the number #2 cyl and bounced around a bit without doing much damage before it exited...... LUCKY!!! The next occurrence may NOT be so lucky. This is what we did for a fix. NOT a recommendation necessarily..... just what we did. * Took the inlet tube/valve off the airplane * Made a long extraction/insertion tool with a 7/64 ball driver and a "T" handle at one end to remove the screws (one at a time if you still have them both!) * Replace the 6-32 (3/8" long) with high quality 6-32 (1/2") long Allen Cap Screws * To hold the screws in place on the end of the ball driver we used a small piece of plastic tygon tubing inserted over the end of the ball driver * Put the new screw in, this can take a while but can be done with patience. * After the screw is inserted, backed it out so maximum threads were showing * With a LONG Q-tip inserted down the tube, spread Loctite #267 (EXTRA high strength RED) over the backed-out threads and then immedaitely tightened it down Notes- we found it was best to get both new screws in place BEFORE tightening with Loctite. The reason we didn't put the Locktite on the threads FIRST, and then insert the screws, is that the Locktite 267 with its integrated primer, was actually starting to dry BEFORE we could get the screw started. Our test samples showed, one thing. If we EVER need to get those screws out..... WE CAN"T!!!! I don't know if Lancair has yet come up with a comprehensive list of who has what valve and which were prepared correctly, but I don't think this is anything to fool around with. Prior to this event, we thought that by keeping an eye on the screws, we would be OK until we heard from Lancair. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!! Hope this helps. Best regards, Erik Larson Legacy N74FX ASW20747@aol.com _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C7E980.4F330D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Erik,

 

I could not see any visible damage = to the exhuast valve on my #5 when it ate a screw  but when tested by the cylinder = shop the exhuast valve was leaking due to damage from the screw exiting. Even if = the valve was fine the shop ground off all the burrs and high points caused = by the screw to prevent them from becoming a source of heat that causes the = mixture to ignite early. Preignition  will quickly ruin your day and the = engine.

 

Maybe I missed it. Did your friend = pull #2 cyl and have it checked and cleaned up? I not an A&P, but I would = recommend it. I did the R&R myself for the cost of a few gaskets. The local = shop charges a flat $300 for the job. That, plus the cost of any cylinder = work is cheap insurance, in my humble opinion.

 

Your fix sounds like a good = approach. My Ram Air is still off the plane while I decided how to not have a repeat episode. Your fix sounds like a good one.

 

Good = luck

 

Paul = Bricker

N63PB

 

 

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of asw20747@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, = 2007 10:43 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Fwd: Ram = Air Valve - More Loose Screws!!

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: asw20747@aol.com
To: lml-digest@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 9:18 am
Subject: Ram Air Valve - More Loose = Screws!!


Just a heads up the group......

The (2) 6-32 Allen Cap Screws that hold the butterfly ram air valve on = the Legacy can and DO come loose!!! (see previous post with an ES also)

This didn't happen to me directly but another Legacy that I'm well aware = of. We have been checking these screws, with a small flashlight and a mirror = inserted in the tube opening, about every other flight.  On this particular = Legacy, the screws looked to be fully seated with ALL the threads showing on the = back side and then on a subsequent check, 3 days (2 flights) later, we found = one screw missing and the other one half way backed out.  When they = come loose, it apparently happens pretty fast!!!

 Borescope inspection revealed that this screw ended up in the = number #2 cyl and bounced around a bit without doing much damage before it = exited...... LUCKY!!!

The next occurrence may NOT be so lucky.

This is what we did for a fix.  NOT a recommendation = necessarily..... just what we did.

*  Took the inlet tube/valve off the airplane
*  Made a long extraction/insertion tool with a 7/64 ball driver = and a "T" handle at one end to remove the screws (one at a time if = you still have them both!)
*  Replace the 6-32 (3/8" long) with high quality 6-32 = (1/2") long Allen Cap Screws
*  To hold the screws in place on the end of the ball driver we = used a small piece of plastic tygon tubing inserted over the end of the ball = driver
*  Put the new screw in, this can take a while but can be done with patience.
*  After the screw is inserted, backed it out so maximum threads = were showing
*  With a LONG Q-tip inserted down the tube, spread Loctite #267 = (EXTRA high strength RED) over the backed-out threads and then immedaitely = tightened it down

Notes- we found it was best to get both new screws in place BEFORE = tightening with Loctite.  The reason we didn't put the Locktite on the threads = FIRST, and then insert the screws, is that the Locktite 267 with its integrated primer, was actually starting to dry BEFORE we could get the screw = started.

Our test samples showed, one thing.  If we EVER need to get those = screws out..... WE CAN"T!!!!

I don't know if Lancair has yet come up with a comprehensive list of who = has what valve and which were prepared correctly, but I don't think this is anything to fool around with.

Prior to this event, we thought that by keeping an eye on the screws, we = would be OK until we heard from Lancair.  THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!!

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Erik Larson

Legacy
N74FX

ASW20747@aol.com


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta = check out free AOL Mail!

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