X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 86 [XXXX] (80%) BODY: Multipart Alternative email: % similar of HTML vs Text part 0 (20%) BODY: contains text similar to "no exercising burn fat" X-Alert: possible spam! X-Color: red Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:48:11 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.5) with ESMTP id 1787122 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:37:20 -0500 Received: from [192.168.111.2] ([70.19.52.195]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JCD00DTAKHIQ9B6@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:36:57 -0600 (CST) X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:36:47 -0500 From: Kevin Kossi Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Ice LIght In-reply-to: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Original-Message-id: <05A0BD3A-58B5-4AAA-BD05-8ACC1DABCCAA@airforcemechanical.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-47-212562911 References: --Apple-Mail-47-212562911 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Everyone that responded, thanks, it was a big help. First I want to reiterate I have no intension of flying in icing =20 conditions, however even with the best planing unexpected things happen. Because the Legacy is optimized for performance the ice margins are =20 extremely thin. That is why I have chosen to go with the Kelly/Notrhcoat de-ice system. I think swapping my back-up alternator for the deice alternator and =20 adding the strips to my wings, vert., horizontals and Prop. and loosing a few knots and gaining a few extra pounds and the cost =20 is worth the peace of mind. First to the flashlight group; I carry two flashlights, one extra =20 bright for inspections and a back-up and the other a regular white/red, plus my phone puts out a good amount of light in and emergency. A =20 flashlight shone out the window would be the most inexpensive way to go, (and I use it now with the rentals at night) but I think the least =20 safest way to go. If the temps are in the freezing zone and I am =20 flying at night I want to check for ice accumulations every few minutes. Pressing a =20 button and looking out the window is just easer and more reliable =20 than using a flashlight. I have ended up fumbling or searching the floor for one after bad =20 turbulence a few times. I am putting a map light in for the same reason. Colin wrote:, What about a view of the horizontal stab out of the rear window with =20 a light shining down the h-stab leading edge? That's a good idea. I hate to admit it but I was thinking of =20 putting a usb camera pointing out the back on the IVP too. Then you =20= could see the horns on the vstab too I have a low voltage spot light on mine, similar to the ong landing =20 light. The bigger problem than the light itself is how to maximize the =20 amount of span you can see. It is hard to get a light into the root so that =20 you can align it to the dihedral. You are probably better off with a flood and then you will still have to pay attention how you aim it. Also consider that the light itself may have some ice on it. Colin, thats a great idea! I was looking at the visual angles after I =20= got the idea and can see you really can not see the leading edge of =20 the wings fully. I think the best place for a light would be in the Fuselage/Vertical, =20= parallel with the Pilots Horizontal, illuminating the Pilots Horizontal. A usb infrared would be good at night! but I have no room for a =20 screen and don't think it will be big enough to see clearly. Skip Slater wrote: The one suggestion I have is when considering a paint scheme to put =20 some dark paint somewhere along your leading edge or you won't see a =20 lot of the ice. I've run into ice once in my ES during a descent that ran into a =20 rapidly descending overcast from above me. If I didn't have some dark blue paint out near the end of my wings, I =20= couldn't have seen it. By detecting it early, I was able to reverse course and get rid of it quickly, then continue =20= my descent in the clear. Skip, That's a great idea and I will keep it in mind when decide on =20 my paint scheme. Grayhawk wrote: Yeah, Grayhawk had one on a Skymaster where one sits in front of the =20 wing leading edge. In a Lancair we sit back far enough that it is hard to see the =20 initial ice formation on the wing leading edge. Otherwise, something in the fuselage that shines down the wing - turn =20= it on, if you don't like what you see, turn it off. What about a view of the horizontal stab out of the rear window with =20 a light shining down the h-stab leading edge? Yes I am doing that now. Brian wrote:, > Kevin, I've installed Whelen ice light fixtures from the Piper =20 > Malibu in a few IVP's. I have custom lenses cut to fit flush with =20 > the outer skin. > They provide light from the fuselage to the winglets and are =20 > designed for a pressurized installation. > I have several pictures of how this installation was done, let me =20 > know if you would like more info. Brian, I was looking at the Whelen Model 71092 Series LED recognition =20= light: =EF=BF=BC It weighs .43 lbs. The one you are using looks lighter, what model is =20= it, and what are you using for a lens, or can you sell me one? I'll call you. Thanks everyone. Kevin --Apple-Mail-47-212562911 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-48-212562912 --Apple-Mail-48-212562912 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Everyone that = responded, thanks, it was a big = help.

First I want to = reiterate I have no intension of flying in icing conditions, however = even with the best planing unexpected things = happen.
Because the Legacy is optimized for performance the ice margins = are=A0extremely thin.
That is why I = have=A0chosen to go with the Kelly/Notrhcoat de-ice = system.
I think=A0swapping my back-up alternator for the deice alternator = and adding the strips to my wings, vert., horizontals and = Prop.
and loosing a few knots and gaining a few extra pounds and the = cost is worth the peace of mind.

First to the = flashlight group; I carry two flashlights, one extra bright for = inspections and a back-up and the other a regular = white/red,
plus my phone puts out a good amount of light in and emergency. = A=A0flashlight shone out the window would be the most inexpensive way to = go,
(and I use it now with the rentals at night)=A0but I think the = least safest way to go. If the temps are in the freezing zone and I am = flying at night
I want to check = for ice accumulations every few minutes.=A0Pressing a button and looking = out the window is just easer and more reliable than using a = flashlight.
I have ended up = fumbling or searching the floor for one after bad=A0turbulence a few = times.
I am=A0putting a map light in for the same = reason.

Colin = wrote:,

What about a = view of the horizontal stab out of the rear window with a light shining = down the h-stab leading edge?

That's a good idea.=A0=A0 I hate to admit it but I was = thinking of putting a usb camera pointing out the back on the IVP too.=A0=A0= Then you could see the horns on the vstab = too

I have a low voltage spot = light on mine, similar to the ong landing = light.
The bigger problem than the = light itself is how to maximize the amount = of
span you can see.=A0 It is = hard to get a light into the root so that you = can
align it to the dihedral. =A0= You are probably better off with a flood = and
then you will still have to = pay attention how you aim it.=A0 Also = consider
that the light itself may = have some ice on it.

Colin, thats a = great idea! I was looking at the visual angles after I got the idea and = can see you really can not see the leading edge of the wings = fully.
I think the best place for a light would be in the = Fuselage/Vertical,=A0parallel with the Pilots Horizontal, illuminating = the=A0Pilots Horizontal.
A usb=A0infrared = would be good at night! but I have no room for a screen and don't think = it will be big=A0enough to see = clearly.


Skip = Slater=A0wrote:

The one = suggestion I have is when considering a paint scheme to put some dark = paint somewhere along your leading edge or you won't see a lot of the = ice.
I've run into ice once in = my ES during a descent that ran into a rapidly descending overcast from = above me.
If I didn't have some dark = blue paint out near the end of my wings, I couldn't have seen it.=A0 By = detecting it early,
I was able to reverse = course and get rid of it quickly, then continue my descent in the = clear.

Skip, That's a = great idea and I will keep it in mind when decide on my paint = scheme.=A0

Grayhawk=A0wrote:

Yeah, Grayhawk = had one on a Skymaster where one sits in front of the wing leading = edge.
In a Lancair we sit back = far enough that it is hard to see the initial ice formation on the wing = leading edge.
Otherwise, something in the = fuselage that shines down the wing - turn it on, if you don't like what = you see, turn it off.
What about a view of the = horizontal stab out of the rear window with a light shining down the = h-stab leading edge?

=A0

Yes I am doing that = now.


Brian wrote:,
Kevin, I've installed Whelen ice light fixtures from the Piper = Malibu in a few IVP's. I have custom lenses cut to fit flush with the = outer skin.

They provide light from the fuselage to the winglets and are = designed for a pressurized = installation.
I have several pictures of how this installation was done, let = me know if you would like more = info.


Brian, I was = looking at the Whelen=A0Model 71092 = Series LED recognition light:=A0
=A0

It weighs .43 lbs. The one you are using = looks lighter, what model is it, and what are you using for a lens, or = can you sell me one?

I'll call = you.


Thanks = everyone.


Kevin


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