X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 30 [X] Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 22:00:02 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from wind.imbris.com ([216.18.130.7] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with ESMTPS id 1742406 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:09:20 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.18.130.7; envelope-from=brent@regandesigns.com Received: from [192.168.1.138] (cbl-238-80.conceptcable.com [207.170.238.80] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by wind.imbris.com (8.12.11/8.12.11.S) with ESMTP id l07K8TBb091569 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brent@regandesigns.com) X-Original-Message-ID: <45A1533B.7000007@regandesigns.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:27 -0800 From: Brent Regan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: D2 Update part deux Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060905070102020801080306" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060905070102020801080306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Brunner writes: << Chelton is willing to sell their Pinpoint AHRS for $4,000 to D2 customers Crossbow is willing to sell their NAV425EX-100 for $2,800 to D2 customers What are peoples thoughts on the comparison between these two: * Have the problems that Crossbow had previously been fixed? * Is this an apples to apples comparison - i.e. do both include the same elements or is there a need to buy additional components for one or the other? * Is there a sense that one or the other is a superior product? D. Brunner >> Doug, To be clear, it says that you can buy a Pinpoint through them for $4K IF you already paid for a system through D2. The answer to your first question is posted on the Xbow web site. The answer to your second question is No. The Pinpoint has a remote magnetometer, an integral air data computer, an OAT system and ARINC 429 outputs on both the ADC and the AHRS. Both have integral GPS, although the Pinpoint can be configured without it. The answer to your third question is best asked of someone who has flown behind both. The test pilot over at Epic, Mike Hooper, reports that the Pinpoint ADAHRS flies better than the previous AHRS (brand withheld to prevent accusations of "bashing"). Dave Morss replaced his 425 with a Pinpoint and has been pleased with the results. CFS installed a Pinpoint in the companies R&D Baron to evaluate the performance and to qualify the ground maintenance software (installed in the IDU). I saw comparative data plots that showed the Pinpoint was comparable to the ~$150K Rockwell Collins AHRS used by CFS as a reference. CFS already had one black eye from an experience with experimental AHRS, that being Watson. During a visit to Boise several years back I remember seeing dozens of Watson AHRS in CFS's CFO's office that were returns for replacement with Xbow 500s (at CFS's considerable expense). There were a few experimental Watson users who retained their Watsons. BTW, years later, CFS software still supports the Watson. At that time there were the same myopic claims of tattered reputations and loss of faith. Actions will determine history, not the tittering of Monday morning quarterbacks. If you are so sure you can predict future events, go play the lottery. One can imagine that the Watson experience would cause CFS management hesitant to take the responsibility of selling and supporting another ADAHRS in the experimental market. Apparently their experience working with Pinpoint combined with the D2 implosion was sufficient. I have known and worked with the founders of CFS for a decade. They are both competent and honorable. CFS is not responsible, in any way, for the D2 mess and yet they did "step up" to help those that were injured despite already having taken a big, perhaps the biggest, hit of anyone involved. I am proud to have CFS as a client and admire the people who work there. As for those of you who are still in whine mode, I offer the following: A woman was sitting on the beach watching her son play near the water's edge. Suddenly a rouge wave washed in a swept her son into the surf. The woman rushed to the water's edge but did not know how to swim so she dropped to her knees and fervently pleaded to God to help her son. Just then the hand of God appeared over the water, scooped up the floundering lad and deposited him safely in his mother's arms. Tears of joy flooded the woman's eyes as she shook from the rush of emotions. Suddenly all was calm and the woman looked away from her beloved son and up to the heavens. In a clear voice she said "He had a hat!" Regards Brent Regan --------------060905070102020801080306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Brunner writes:
<<
Chelton is willing to sell their Pinpoint AHRS for $4,000 to D2 customers
 
Crossbow is willing to sell their NAV425EX-100 for $2,800 to D2 customers
 
What are peoples thoughts on the comparison between these two:
  • Have the problems that Crossbow had previously been fixed?
  • Is this an apples to apples comparison - i.e. do both include the same elements or is there a need to buy additional components for one or the other?
  • Is there a sense that one or the other is a superior product?
D. Brunner

>>

Doug,

To be clear, it says that you can buy a Pinpoint through them for $4K IF you already paid for a system through D2. 

The answer to your first question is posted  on the Xbow web site.

The answer to your second question is No. The Pinpoint has a remote magnetometer, an integral air data computer, an OAT system and ARINC 429 outputs on both the ADC and the AHRS. Both have integral GPS, although the Pinpoint can be configured without it.

The answer to your third question is best asked of someone who has flown behind both. The test pilot over at Epic, Mike Hooper,  reports that the Pinpoint ADAHRS flies better than the previous AHRS (brand withheld to prevent accusations of "bashing"). Dave Morss replaced his 425 with a Pinpoint and has been pleased with the results. CFS installed a Pinpoint in the companies R&D Baron to evaluate the performance and to qualify the ground maintenance software (installed in the IDU). I saw comparative data plots that showed the Pinpoint was comparable to the ~$150K Rockwell Collins AHRS used by CFS as a reference.

CFS already had one black eye from an experience with experimental AHRS, that being Watson. During a visit to Boise several years back I remember seeing dozens of Watson AHRS in CFS's CFO's office that were returns for replacement with Xbow 500s (at CFS's considerable expense). There were a few experimental Watson users who retained their Watsons. BTW, years later, CFS software still supports the Watson.  At that time there were the same myopic claims of tattered reputations and loss of faith. Actions will determine history, not the tittering of Monday morning quarterbacks. If you are so sure you can predict future events, go play the lottery.

One can imagine that the Watson experience would cause CFS management hesitant to take the responsibility of selling and supporting another ADAHRS in the experimental market. Apparently their experience working with Pinpoint combined with the D2 implosion was sufficient.

I have known and worked with the founders of CFS for a decade. They are both competent and honorable. CFS is not responsible, in any way, for the D2 mess and yet they did "step up" to help those that were injured despite already having taken a big, perhaps the biggest, hit of anyone involved. I am proud to have CFS as a client and admire the people who work there.

As for those of you who are still in whine mode, I offer the following:

A woman was sitting on the beach watching her son play near the water's edge. Suddenly a rouge wave washed in a swept her son into the surf.  The woman rushed to the water's edge but did not know how to swim so she dropped to her knees and fervently pleaded to God to help her son. Just then the hand of God appeared over the water, scooped up the floundering lad and deposited him safely in his mother's arms. Tears of joy flooded the woman's eyes as she shook from the rush of emotions. Suddenly all was calm and the woman looked away from her beloved son and  up to the heavens. In a clear voice she said "He had a hat!"

Regards
Brent Regan
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