X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-PolluStop: No license found, only first 5 messages were scanned Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:06:33 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.1) with ESMTP id 1208175 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.157.36; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id q.557.6c3588 (41811) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:09:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <557.6c3588.31d2962d@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:09:49 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: no more tragic news please! X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1151417389" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5318 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1151417389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/27/2006 5:07:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, skipslater@earthlink.net writes: The reason for the turn at 1.5 miles was threefold: 750' AGL (300' above a normal glidepath) 210 KIAS (about 100 knots too fast) 1900 fpm rate of descent (around 1200 fpm higher than a normal descent rate) That plane was coming down like a clean brick to try to salvage an unsalvageable approach when at 1.5 miles, it became obvious that a right 360 was needed to get down and slow down enough to land. Apparently, the turn into the dark combined with an unarrested sink rate resulted in flying into the water a little over halfway through the turn. Skip, Hmmmm, I just looked at the ILS and GPS plates for runway 13 at KPVU. This is another example of a puzzler that makes one wonder what was the start of the chain of errors and why it wasn't broken. There should have been plenty of "instrument" guidance available - even in the VMC conditions that existed. Turning over the dark water should have been a non-event with an approach dialed into the system and reversion to instrument scan. I remember that during a night currency flight on a dark "cloudless" night with the city lights to the east and the unlit cornfields to the west, I was on the downwind to rwy 9 and the turn to base left me in the black hole of an errant cloud. Reverting to instruments kept the plane level until emerging from that little bugger. The lesson learned was to expect anything at night and dial in the ILS if one is available for the runway. Scott -------------------------------1151417389 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 6/27/2006 5:07:54 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 skipslater@earthlink.net writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>

The reason for the turn at 1= .5 miles=20 was threefold:

750' AGL (300' abov= e a=20 normal glidepath)

210 KIAS (about 100= knots=20 too fast)

1900 fpm rate of descent= =20 (around 1200 fpm higher than a normal descent rate)

That plane was coming down like a clean b= rick to=20 try to salvage an unsalvageable approach when at 1.5 miles, it became obvi= ous=20 that a right 360 was needed to get down and slow down enough to land. = ;=20 Apparently, the turn into the dark combined with an unarrested sink r= ate=20 resulted in flying into the water a little over halfway through the=20 turn.

Skip,

Hmmmm, I just looked at the ILS and GPS plates for runway 13 at=20 KPVU. This is another example of a puzzler that makes one wonder what=20= was=20 the start of the chain of errors and why it wasn't broken. There shoul= d=20 have been plenty of "instrument" guidance available - even in the VMC=20 conditions that existed. Turning over the dark water should have been=20= a=20 non-event with an approach dialed into the system and reversion=20 to instrument scan.

I remember that during a night currency flight on a dark "cloudless" ni= ght=20 with the city lights to the east and the unlit cornfields to the west,=20= I=20 was on the downwind to rwy 9 and the turn to base left me in the black=20= hole=20 of an errant cloud. Reverting to instruments kept the plane level until= =20 emerging from that little bugger. The lesson learned was to expect=20 anything at night and dial in the ILS if one is available for the runway.

Scott

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