Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #35474
From: Frederick Moreno <fredmoreno@optusnet.com.au>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: FW: Compression, boost, and detonation
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:57:15 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>

All excellent questions. 

 

My reading of the technical literature combined with some experience suggests that cylinder/head/induction temperature are the big swingers in detonation occurrence, with bore size, mixture ratio, hot spots and combustion chamber configuration also contributing.  Anything that makes the brew hot as it approached top dead center could contribute to an "autoignition" event in which the mix goes bang, with undesirable results. 

 

I had to do some intensive work in this area when John Forker was ferrying a Lancair IV from New Zealand to California.  It was (is) equipped with an engine similar to that in Brent's plane, an IO-540 Lycoming with dual turbochargers and intercoolers, compression ratio unknown to me, possibly also 8.5 to 1. 

 

John unknowingly got a bad load of fuel in Samoa, and half way to Hawaii started seeing temperature problems which we finally diagnosed as the fuel to the engine slowly changing from Avgas to whatever crap was pumped in at Samoa, probably 100 LL cut with jet A.  He kept reducing power setting and enrichening to avoid detonation and heating, and quickly was running so rich that Hawaii and Samoa were both out of reach.  So he turned right and went 900 miles to the island of Kirabati (and was promptly arrested, but that is another story.) 

 

We shipped tools and instruments via the weekly fight from Hawaii, and the engine inspection suggested he caught the problems in time by reducing power settings and pumping in a lot more fuel.  So problem one solved: airplane appeared flyable. 

 

Problem two: only unleaded regular autofuel available, 87 octane.  (Aside: autofuel octane and AVGAS octane are derived differently, so be careful in comparisons.  Mixture ratio also changes apparent octane rating, richer giving better detonation resistance.)  It was out of the question to ship a barrel of AVGAS to the island.  Trust me.  Ditto for octane enhancer.  Nobody will fly it, and the delivery ship comes about four times a year.  Maybe.

 

So the question of the day: can you burn 87 octane unleaded autofuel in this aircraft engine?  And your life will depend on it.   

 

I burned the phone lines for a week, talked to many engine builders, consulted the literature, and concluded that rich enough, with low enough manifold pressure and low enough CHT, it should be OK.  So John drained one tank, put in some autofuel, and we restricted him to 23 inches (maybe it was 25, memory fades) and 350F CHT.  He took off, climbed to cruise altitude, circled for one hour, could find no problems, and landed.  The other tank was drained, and fuselage tank and both wing tanks filled with autofuel.  Fortunately he had 6000 feet of runway at sea level, and he used it all to get the airplane off.  It was a real dog being heavy and taking off at reduced throttle.

 

John flew on to Hawaii, although once near, to add insult to injury, ATC gave him a 1 hour delaying vector due to military activities a couple of hundred miles off shore.  But he had LOTS of fuel, and ran nice and rich with well retarded throttle, and everything stayed cool.

 

Once landed, the engine got a thorough going over by some A and Ps at Honolulu.  No problems.  John gave away a lot of auto gas to the FBO guys (lots of cars got filled), flushed the tanks, and later flew on to California.  The engine is still doing fine, as far as I know.  John normally runs LOP at reduced power settings, but lately reported that his fuel controller is a bit unstable at low flow rates, and needs a rebuild.  So lately he runs 50F rich of peak, also at lower power settings.

 

One thing learned from the research was that as a rough rule of thumb, reducing CHT 20F is equivalent to raising octane one point in terms of detonation margin.  That means if you go from 400F for an air cooled engine to 200F for a liquid cooled engine (operating at 176F coolant temperature, allowing for temperature drop across the head), you can reduce octane requirement about 10 points.  Low and behold, in liquid cooled engines you can run fairly high BMEP and compression ratio with 92 octane (remember octane comparison caution.)  

 

However, keep in mind, bore size also counts a lot in this mix.  Detonation is worsened by big cylinders.

 

But the tech literature is clear.  To avoid detonation, reduce manifold pressure, reduce temperature, and run rich.  Doing two out of three is probably adequate.  What the temperature, manifold pressure, mixture, compression ratio map looks like, I am not sure.  Only data will tell the deed.

 

Your comments, corrections,  and suggestions are welcome.  Just keep in mind that like Brent Regan, I know nothing.  I only simulate competence.  Use your own judgment and experience.  Your mileage may vary.

 

Fred Moreno

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin Kaye [mailto:marv@lancaironline.net]
Sent:
Tuesday, 25 April 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Compression, boost, and detonation

 

Posted for "richard  titsworth" <rtitsworth@mindspring.com>:

 

 

 

  George,

 

 

 

  I was at your Jan 06 APS course (well worth it - I'd recommend it anyone)!

 

  I know/realize "tuning" is all very inter-related (and often secret), but a

  few questions.

 

 

 

  Was it a TSIO-550 w/ 8.5:1 or a normalized IO-550?   Any other mods -

  ceramic piston domes, etc?

 

  Any "landmarks" (MP, RPM, FF, CHT) that seem to consistently represent the

  "detonation edge"?

 

  Any info you can share/suggest for spark advance, and/or target manifold

  temperatures, to minimize/optimize detonation with the TSIO-550 - 8.5:1?

 

 

 

  I fully respect your testing.  I love airplane engines and I know you hate

  to hear about autos..

 

  But, our detonation challenges (at reasonable mid 30"s MP boost levels, with

  reasonable 8.5:1, and with good 100LL fuel) occur where high perf autos

  operate successfully.

 

  (I'm not going there with the comparisons - just focusing on detonation

  phenomenon)

 

 

 

  I understand the effects of timing, RPM, and mixture, but those are

  "patches" not "fixes".  (Perhaps variable timing is the fix?)

 

 

 

  Seems like I keep coming back to scavenging/eliminating heat as the key to

  delaying the onset of detonation, HP, economy, etc.

 

 

 

  Any sense/confirmation on this?  Any detailed insight on what heat source is

  the prime cause (internal head face, piston crown, walls, value face, etc)?

 

 

 

  How does the air (in the cylinder) get over-heated?

 

  Is the air too hot before it enters the cylinder? (that seems controllable

  if we're willing to accept additional cooling drag)

 

  Does heat built too much during compression (adiabatically)? (@ 8.5:1

  compression is not un-reasonably high)

 

  Is it absorbed from the piston, head face, walls?  (The air isn't in there

  very long to be heated by radiation/convection - I think I'll try some heat

  transfer modeling - any insights on coatings?

 

  Is it heated in the port while waiting for the intake value to open (sitting

  there for 3 strokes)

 

 

 

  Have you done much testing with value overlap, intake vs exhaust pressure

  ratio, etc - perhaps residual air/exhaust from the prior cycle (hot) is

  helping to heat the incoming air?  Seems higher compression would help

  reduce this effect (less residual air)?

 

 

 

  Have you ever had the opportunity to test a TCM LTSIO-550 (liquid)?  I know

  it's not the same cross-flow arrangement (and too much trouble for me to

  consider for my plane), but I'm curious if it offers any detonation/heat

  insights?

 

 

 

  Have you ever tested the "Cool Jugs"?

  http://www.liquidcooledairpower.com/products.shtml   I know these are for

  smaller engines, but perhaps any heat/detonation insights?

 

 

 

  I don't recall if you can simulate altitude with your dyno (i.e. throttle

  the compressor input)?

 

  Any sense of altitude's effect on detonation margins (say above 18,000)?

 

  Presumed effects (ceteris peribus):

 

  Hotter upper deck temps due to compressor pressurization (thus exercising

  the intercoolers)

 

  Higher exhaust back pressure due to waste gate being "more closed" to drive

  compressor to create upper deck pressure

 

  Lower exhaust back pressure due to lower turbine exit pressure (ambient) -

  negligible?

 

 

 

 

 

  Rick Titsworth

 

  APS Jan, 06

 

  Lancair ES - TSIO-550E-8.5

 

  rtitsworth@mindspring.com

 

  cell: 313-506-5064

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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