Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #34980
From: Johannes Schredl <jschredl@web.de>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: AW: high CHT
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:45:35 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Scott,
 
thank you for your mail!
Find below some of my coments and additional information (blue)!
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. März 2006 01:54
An: jschredl@web.de; lml@lancaironline.net
Betreff: Re: high CHT

Johannes,
 
You wrote:
In a message dated 3/20/2006 1:22:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, jschredl@web.de writes:
1. Calibration of probes: use 4 pc. EGT and CHT thermocouples with the
EPI800 system from Vision Micro. I checked one probe years ago with
confidential results. But I agree, I have to re-check them all again to be
on the save side.
Are you using bayonet type probes?  Spark Plug Washer type CHT sensors can yield a reading 50F higher than actual. 
 
Johannes: The probes I use came with the Vision Micro EPI800 system and are screwed into the cylinder.


2. During a normal flight I have following results (+-10°F):
   2500 RPM; 23,3"Hg; OAT=72°F; at 4500ft with 185MPH Indicated Airspeed;
Oil-Temp=193°F; Fuel = 7,5 gal/hour; (Temperatures converted from °C to °F)
        CHT       EGT
Cyl. 1  390°F     1400°F
Cyl. 2  410°F     1436°F
Cyl. 3  410°F     1418°F
Cyl. 4  390°F     1382°F

I have a standard IO320 Lycoming (new when installed) with standard Bendix
injector, Slick magnetos and standard pistons.
I notice Cyl. 2+3 have slight higher EGT and same to CHT.
Today I braved high winds and cold weather to try to collect similar information.  Although the temperature was somewhat cooler, these results are consistent with past tests.  Note that I have ECI Cermi-Nil cylinders, 9:1 compression ratio pistons, about 300 hours SMOH (15 hours on cyl #3 OH), Light Speed Electronic Ignition and a small (7 Vane) Stewart-Warner oil cooler. So....
 
23.5 MAP, 2500 RPM, 4500 feet MSL, 30.17"Hg (1020 Mb), Dalt 3600, 4C (39F) OAT,
176 KIAS, 186 KTAS (these are Knots) and Oil 165F, Fuel 9.7 gph.
Note: #3 EGT peaked at 1430F, 8.4 gph (EI timing was 25 degrees BTDC). After enrichening to 9.7 GPH:
CYL CHT   EGT
    1 340F  1290F
    2 330    1320
   *3 340    1320
    4 340    1310 
 
Scott, when looking to your values I noticed an error in my values while converting fuel consumption (used Imperial Galons ;-((  my right fuel consumption is:  8,7 US-gal/h
I also see your EGT is much lower than mine: my EGT peak at 4500ft is about 1510°F! I lean always to the rich side at least -100°F as reccomended in the lycoming manual. Is this correct? My probes are all  3" down from the tube flange:
 
I then closed the oil cooler air intake door far enough to raise the oil temp to 176F (no change in CHT) and
note that my EPI 800 spare temp probe is located at the oil cooler air exit where it registered 69C (156F).
 
Next I opened the throttle fully (WOT), MAP of 27.4", 2500 RPM, 11.7 gph (100F rich of peak), 192 KIAS (201 KTAS) 
with all the CHTs dropping about 10F.
 
On return I climbed to 5500 MSL where the density altitude was 4600 feet and the temp was 3C.
There I ran 23.5 MAP, 2500 RPM, 178 KIAS, 9.6 GPH, 176F oil with the door partially closed and
the CHTs were even at 330F.
 
SO,
 
a. Do you really mean 185 MPH or 185 Knots?  The difference would be significant in gph and cooling differential pressures.  Johannes:I mean 185 MPH =  161 knots (IAS) and 8,7 gal/h
b. Is your oil cooler a Stewart-Warner (other brands are less efficient)? How many vanes? Johannes: Stewart-Warner 6 vanes
 
(note: blue silicone seals are removed and changed against pressure cowling)
 
c. Is your Vernatherm correctly set to send all the oil to the cooler when the temp exceeds 180F? Oil accounts for at least 1/3rd of the engine cooling.  The vernatherm can be tested in hot water to see if it fully shrinks (opens) at 180F.   Johannes: I´m not shure. But on a hot summer day cruising at 75% oil temp does not exceed  205°F. I think is o.k. Is it?
d. Has your throttle body been checked to see if it is delivering all the fuel it should? Fuel consumption seems a bit low unless your HP is much less than mine or;   (Johannes: Right! Correction see above) 
e. Are you running at peak or lean of peak EGT? (I tend to see lower EGTs because of the electronic ignition, but not that much lower.)   Johannes: rich side -100°F 
 


3. Measuring the pressure conditions was my first attempt to get more
information about this problem.
I have to add I used the static pressure of the cockpit, not from the static
ports. Now you tell me there might be a considerable differenc I have to
repeat measurement using the exact static pressure!
The reason why I used a airspeed indicator was I can compare it better:
Aircraft speed v: thats the maximum of pressure I can ever get (knowing
p-dynamic = 1/2 * rho * v * v) -> max ram air
The "air-speed" at the upper cowling never can be higher than v! In reality
less than v because the "upper cowling" is not perfect sealed and air is
going down through the cylinder fins. My feeling 75% of v (100%) is a good
value.
While there is a relationship between aircraft airspeed and possible upper cowl pressure, using a % airspeed relationship is not meaningful.  It is the upper/lower cowl pressure difference that is significant regardless of airspeed.  Thus, the pitot/static use of an airspeed indicator is only useful to convert to pressure, such pressure reported in the literature as inches of water, not airspeed% or psi.  My friend with an E-Racer (rear engined) is concerned with the pressure differential even when he is idling his engine and the aircraft is at zero airspeed.  
Johannes: you are right, but I thought the "air speed" gives me an idea about the pressure situation...

Very supprising to me is a pressure of about 40% below the cylinder. My
first thought was: this is much to high to have a good pressure difference
between upper and lower plenum! Here is the biggest potential ot improve
cooling by reducing this pressure.
Reading all your mail show me that´s "normal"...
By the way: the airspeed indicator (I use for "pressure-measurement") needle
is vibrating about +-3knots and gives a not too bad reading. However using
some kind of damping should improve this instrument
Since this lower cowl "airspeed" was computed from cockpit "static" pressure, it is not understandable except to point out that the engine compartment has a positive air pressure with respect to the cockpit (see my separate e-mail) and that is important for other reasons. 
Johannes: Your are right: I´ve learned to use not the cockpit static pressure... 
 
If I take the speeds in your original e-mail graph (say, aircraft at 180) and convert them to pressure (upper 135, lower 65) and  subtract the difference, that should be the upper/lower cowl pressure difference since the static source is the same:
 
In Knots, 135=11.9" H2O, 65=2.8", difference = 9.1" H2O certainly enough for cooling.  However, if we are using MPH:
 in MPH 135= 9" H2O, 65=2", the difference is 7" H2O which should be enough for cooling although it is at the lower end and certainly won't be as high in a Vx or Vy climb.  
Johannes: The unit indicated in the graph is Knots (IAS)
 


4. On the backside of my baffles I have holes for the oil cooler (as
described in lancair manual) and cabin air. Both holes are about 2"
diameter. Variating the hole for the oil cooler do not have a signigicant
change to CHT but of course to the oil temperature (I use different cut out
sizes for summer /winter time)
Interesting.  Note that if you are using the Lancair cabin heat valve (1.5"), when the heat is turned off the hot air is merely directed into the lower cowling rather than the cabin.  Also, you are dumping the oil cooler exit air into the lower cowling and it is possible that these air exits may affect the engine cooling air's smooth exit as well as creating a low pressure across the top of the cylinders.  I found it interesting that your very nice cowling nose gear door made no difference as I was just considering one to improve cooling efficiency and thus reduce cooling drag.  
Johannes: To be honest: I did only a short flight under "bad weather conditions" and did not notice a huge drop of EGT (as expected ;-). As soon I´ve time I will repeat this tests using a static port and get more precisely data!
 
Johannes: (note: blue sealings are removed); oil cooler exit air: a good point! This could have a negative effect to the cowling outlet


5. I building a pressure cowling which seals the baffles perfect. At the air
inlet section I tied to have only very small gaps (about 1/8"). Right now I
did not consider to have a perfect air flow design with smout ramps less
than 7° angle (will be improved).
The short and sharp ending of the Lancair cooling air inlets tend to have a turbulence which makes the opening appear smaller to the air flow than it actually is. 
Johannes: I totally agree with you! But until now I refused to touch this cowling part because of paint design...;-)


Conclusion:
I see the aim to get a lower CHT is not that simple (as I already know
before). But when measuring a "40%-Pressure" below the cylinder I thought
that´s the reason! But when the air outlet area from the lower cowling is
big enoth and is acting like a venturi system there should be a much lower
pressure...
Maybe there are turbulences or other reasons (like Gary Casey mentioned )
for this high pressure!
I also liked the slight flare (away from the fuselage) at the air exit point of the bottom cowl as this should create a slight low pressure and assist the exiting air rather than have the airstream curl back over the sharp cowl end and slightly close up the exit area in a virtual sense. 
 
Johannes: Thank you very much for your detailed answers! Step by step I get a better understanding about the situation and some realy good new ideas! It is encouriging me to procede testing!
We had a long and cold winter but now spring is coming gradually! It´s time to sart flying season!
 
Johannes
 
Verrrrry Interrrrrresting!
 
Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)
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