X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 12:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 952774 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:44:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.5; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id q.20a.1831b78 (4320) for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:44:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <20a.1831b78.2fc210d5@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 12:44:05 EDT Subject: LSE Electronic Ignition - Post Install Notes. X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1116780245" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1116780245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TESTING has been most interesting. A week ago, after laborious ground runs, rapid throttle movements, etc, a first flight was made with very positive results - smooth engine, good power, and all numbers in the normal range. A mere 20 min flight checkout over the airport. The second flight was not as pleasant because of burbling at low rpm and consistent misfire at cruise........ I say consistent because no temperature indicated any troublesome cylinder. What gives? I started out with the fancy ($10) moped plugs (triple electrode, W27EBR-C) that I didn't like because of the inconsistent gapping (around .040) and 24 adjustment prongs that proved difficult to adjust. The plugs were pulled and cleaned with nothing more than a momentary improvement. Maybe the gaps were too large? I had a chat with Klaus and he asked if I had set the idle mixture - "No, I had an electronic ignition (LASAR) and that is was OK." He insisted that I check it and so that was done. The final settings were very close to those previously set. High RPM run ups were done with leaning trying to self-clean the plugs and a short flight was accomplished with engine coarseness and frequent misfire at idle after returning. Klaus also mentioned some other items that new installers should take note: 1. The wires exiting the sensors should be supported by something that shakes in sync with the sensors (engine) so that the plug pin vibration is kept to a minimum. He suggested an adel clamp to one of the screws that fasten on the sensor back plate. There is a small problem in that the screw cannot be too long because it would hit the case fins. This procedure would have been easy to do if it had been done before the sensors were installed. However, I did find nearby spots on the engine to secure these wires rather than the 4 or 5 inch to the wire bundle that travels behind the engine. A better design would have been to put the connectors on a 10-12 inch pigtails coming out of the sensors. Then, the connection could have been isolated from vibration away from the engine. I will pass this along to Klaus as a suggestion. 2. Along with item 1, I noted to Klaus that the connector screws had worked themselves loose. He said some users had wrapped the connector with a tie wrap just behind the screws to keep them from backing out. OK, I did that too. Note that the pigtail type connection solves that problem also. Since I still had a rough idle, I replaced the upper plugs with the cheaper W27EMR-C and more consistent gaps. Operation on the upper ignition was smoother so I went for another short flight. Upon return, the mis-firing was again occurring on both. In the meantime, I had ordered a batch of W27EMR-Cs and a set of the Iridium Denso IK7s. With time on my hands, I wondered how plugs could be fouled so fast, even if the idle mixture was rich (leaned during taxi) it seemed unlikely that the plugs would become unusable in such a short time. What could be different? I had a friend helping with the adapter/plug install and, following LSE directions, an anti-seize was used. He had grabbed the Permatex silvery-toothpaste stuff used with the exhaust slip crossover connections. I looked at the back where it listed plugs as one of the applications and so it was used. But now, in light of the fouling problems, there was some concern because this stuff doesn't go away (rated to 1600F) and becomes quite liquid at high temp, leaving behind a silver-like residue - no wonder it works so well on the exhaust system. Could this residue be migrating to the plug ends and contributing their becoming fouled? I have always used the black Champion plug anti-seize before this and never had a problem. The friend has the Electroair system and had switched to aviation plugs because of fouling - he even fouled fine-wire plugs and always uses the Permatex. Hmmmmmm...... Yesterday, I removed the adapters and plugs, cleaned the adapters and the engine helicoils as best I could with acetone and installed them along with the new IK7s using the Champion anti-seize. Run ups went well and the forty minute flight was a smooth as the first. Post flight taxi and idle remained smooth. Of course, at least another flight will be necessary to see if the Permatex was at fault and I hope there is no Permatex residue hanging around. BTW, I like the IK7 plugs because the gap is consistently between .030 and something less than .035. For those still interested, here are some flight details. I took off and climbed directly to 7500 MSL at 135 KIAS - my usual. What was different is the trimmed attitude didn't require any adjustment all the way up - a first. 7500 MSL, 30.03 Baro, 17C, WOT, 24" MAP, 2510 RPM, 172 IAS, 195 KTAS, 25.9L and 25.1R timing. Lean operation: #1 peaked at 1390, 8.7 GPH, then enriched 100F, 9.8 GPH: CYL CHT EGT 1 370 1290 2 380 1310 3 370 1290 4 390 1310 For Speed Demon, Hurry Up Larry, et al, I descended to 2000 MSL and stabilized level with WOT, 29.6" MAP, 2700 RPM, Cyl #1 CHT 350, about 13.5 or so GPH, 20 degrees BTDC 204 KIAS, 211 KTAS That's the fastest I can remember! Hmmmmm... I might have to re-adjust the nose-down trim spring or the flap reflex...... I would have liked to provide more data, but flying was more important than writing. One last "gripe". The dual LSE units are interconnected so that if a timing sensor fails, the other can take over (and the timing curve is altered, I believe). It is very difficult to exactly align the sensors and 1 degree of arc is only 67 microseconds at 2500 rpm - about .02" of piston movement - but, timing is important! So, I will ask Klaus the effect of switching off one sensor so that both ignitions use the same timing or why a switch can't be provided that would have both ignitions use the same sensor (ergo exactly the same timing) but switch to the other if there is a failure. Hmmmm, maybe I will have to hook up the timing pots. I will report more data as testing continues. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) -------------------------------1116780245 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TESTING has been most interesting.
 
A week ago, after laborious ground runs, rapid throttle movements, etc,= a=20 first flight was made with very positive results - smooth engine, good power= ,=20 and all numbers in the normal range.  A mere 20 min flight checkout ove= r=20 the airport.
 
The second flight was not as pleasant because of burbling at low r= pm=20 and consistent misfire at cruise........ I say consistent because no tempera= ture=20 indicated any troublesome cylinder. What gives?
 
I started out with the fancy ($10) moped plugs (triple electrode,=20 W27EBR-C) that I didn't like because of the inconsistent gapping (around .04= 0)=20 and 24 adjustment prongs that proved difficult to adjust.  The plu= gs=20 were pulled and cleaned with nothing more than a momentary improvement. = ;=20 Maybe the gaps were too large? 
 
I had a chat with Klaus and he asked if I had set the idle mixture=20 - "No, I had an electronic ignition (LASAR) and that is was=20 OK."  He insisted that I check it and so that was done.  The=20 final settings were very close to those previously set.  High RPM run u= ps=20 were done with leaning trying to self-clean the plugs and a short flight was= =20 accomplished with engine coarseness and frequent misfire at idle after=20 returning. 
 
Klaus also mentioned some other items that new installers should take=20 note:
 
1. The wires exiting the sensors should be supported by something that=20 shakes in sync with the sensors (engine) so that the plug pin vibration is k= ept=20 to a minimum.  He suggested an adel clamp to one of the screws=20 that fasten on the sensor back plate.  There is a small probl= em=20 in that the screw cannot be too long because it would hit the case fins.&nbs= p;=20 This procedure would have been easy to do if it had been done before the sen= sors=20 were installed.  However, I did find nearby spots on the engine to secu= re=20 these wires rather than the 4 or 5 inch to the wire bundle that travels behi= nd=20 the engine.  A better design would have been to put the connectors= on=20 a 10-12 inch pigtails coming out of the sensors.  Then, the connection=20 could have been isolated from vibration away from the engine.  I will p= ass=20 this along to Klaus as a suggestion.
 
2.  Along with item 1, I noted to Klaus that the connector screws=20= had=20 worked themselves loose.  He said some users had wrapped the conne= ctor=20 with a tie wrap just behind the screws to keep them from backing out.&n= bsp;=20 OK, I did that too.  Note that the pigtail type connection solves=20= that=20 problem also.
 
Since I still had a rough idle, I replaced the upper plugs with the che= aper=20 W27EMR-C and more consistent gaps.  Operation on the upper ignition was= =20 smoother so I went for another short flight.  Upon return, the mis-firi= ng=20 was again occurring on both.  In the meantime, I had ordered a batch of= =20 W27EMR-Cs and a set of the Iridium Denso IK7s.
 
With time on my hands, I wondered how plugs could be fouled so fast, ev= en=20 if the idle mixture was rich (leaned during taxi) it seemed unlikely that th= e=20 plugs would become unusable in such a short time.
 
What could be different?  I had a friend helping with the adapter/= plug=20 install and, following LSE directions, an anti-seize was used.  He had=20 grabbed the Permatex silvery-toothpaste stuff used with the exhaust sli= p=20 crossover connections.  I looked at the back where it listed plugs= as=20 one of the applications and so it was used.  But now, in light of=20= the=20 fouling problems, there was some concern because this stuff doesn't go=20= away=20 (rated to 1600F) and becomes quite liquid at high temp, leaving behind=20= a=20 silver-like residue - no wonder it works so well on the exhaust system. = ;=20 Could this residue be migrating to the plug ends and contributing their beco= ming=20 fouled?  I have always used the black Champion plug anti-seize bef= ore=20 this and never had a problem.  The friend has the Electroair system and= had=20 switched to aviation plugs because of fouling - he even fouled fine-wire plu= gs=20 and always uses the Permatex.  Hmmmmmm......
 
Yesterday, I removed the adapters and plugs, cleaned the adapters and t= he=20 engine helicoils as best I could with acetone and installed them along with=20= the=20 new  IK7s using the Champion anti-seize.  Run ups went well and th= e=20 forty minute flight was a smooth as the first.  Post flight taxi and id= le=20 remained smooth.  Of course, at least another flight will be necessary=20= to=20 see if the Permatex was at fault and I hope there is no Permatex residue han= ging=20 around.   
 
BTW, I like the IK7 plugs because the gap is consistently between .030=20= and=20 something less than .035.
 
For those still interested, here are some flight details.
 
I took off and climbed directly to 7500 MSL at 135 KIAS - my usual.&nbs= p;=20 What was different is the trimmed attitude didn't require any adjustment all= the=20 way up - a first.
 
7500 MSL, 30.03 Baro, 17C, WOT, 24" MAP, 2510 RPM, 172 IAS, 195 KTAS, 2= 5.9L=20 and 25.1R timing.
 
Lean operation:  #1 peaked at 1390, 8.7 GPH, then enriched 100F, 9= .8=20 GPH:
 
CYL  CHT EGT
    1   370  1290
    2   380  1310
    3   370  1290
    4   390  1310
 
For Speed Demon, Hurry Up Larry, et al,
 
I descended to 2000 MSL and stabilized level with WOT, 29.6" MAP, 2700=20= RPM,=20 Cyl #1 CHT 350, about 13.5 or so GPH, 20 degrees BTDC 
204 KIAS, 211 KTAS
 
That's the fastest I can remember!  Hmmmmm... I might have to=20 re-adjust the nose-down trim spring or the flap reflex...... I would have li= ked=20 to provide more data, but flying was more important than writing.
 
One last "gripe".  The dual LSE units are interconnected so that i= f a=20 timing sensor fails, the other can take over (and the timing curve is altere= d, I=20 believe).  It is very difficult to exactly align the sensors and 1 degr= ee=20 of arc is only 67 microseconds at 2500 rpm - about .02" of piston movem= ent=20 - but, timing is important!  So, I will ask Klaus the effect of switchi= ng=20 off one sensor so that both ignitions use the same timing or why a switch ca= n't=20 be provided that would have both ignitions use the same sensor (ergo exactly= the=20 same timing) but switch to the other if there is a failure.  Hmmmm= ,=20 maybe I will have to hook up the timing pots.
 
I will report more data as testing continues.
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)



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