Sender: "Marvin Kaye" <marv@lancaironline.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:20:45 -0400
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Subject: RE: [LML] Re: AOA, stalls etc
Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: AOA, stalls etc
Thread-Index: AcSjCJXq6SP0s+eWTRq9zdMYZ56Vcw==
From: "Halle, John" <JJHALLE@stoel.com>

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You're right.  Age does things to memory.  According to the T-2B/C =
NATOPS, the stall speed is 88 kts. with 2K# of fuel and 0 degrees of =
bank.  Same setup at  30 degrees of bank, stall speed is 94.  Fifteen =
units AOA with 2K# of fuel is 103 kts.  Difference is 9 kts in the =
approach and 15 on final.  Still a long way from what anyone should be =
using for a Lancair approach speed.  Most importantly, 15 units AOA is =
equivalent to a speed at which sink rate cannot be reduced with stick.  =
The only way to do it is with power and in some of the a/c I flew, power =
response was a lot less than instantaneous. AOA picked up sink much =
quicker than an airspeed indicator and allowed quicker, and therefore =
smaller power adjustments.
=20
Lancair teaches a 100 kt. approach speed all the way to flare.  With 300 =
hrs + in the airplane, I now use 90 on short final in smooth air and, if =
I am going into a short strip, 85.  In rough air, I am at 100 the whole =
way.  That's 41 kts. over my stall speed.  I could easily pull 2G on =
flare and not stall.  For that kind of approach, an airspeed indicator =
works fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com [mailto:VTAILJEFF@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: AOA, stalls etc


In a message dated 9/23/2004 12:19:28 PM Central Standard Time, =
marv@lancaironline.net writes:

Comments from a former nasal radiator:  we used AOA for approaches flown =

so
as to be able to land on aircraft carriers.  Approach speed was =
two-three
knots above 1G stall speed and was the speed at which ANY elevator input
increased sink rate. =20

Perhaps your memory is a little off... but "on speed" AOA was not 2 to 3 =
knots above 1 G stall speed. If that was the case, I would have had to =
use the Martin Baker alternate landing device many times. :)
=20
Regards,
=20
Jeff Edwards
A-6 bomardier/ navigator


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D735164213-25092004>You're right.&nbsp; Age does =
things to=20
memory.&nbsp; According to the T-2B/C NATOPS, the stall speed is 88 kts. =
with=20
2K# of fuel and 0 degrees of&nbsp;bank.&nbsp; Same setup at &nbsp;30 =
degrees of=20
bank, stall speed is 94.&nbsp; Fifteen units AOA with 2K# of fuel is 103 =

kts.&nbsp; Difference is 9 kts in the approach and 15 on final.&nbsp; =
Still a=20
long way from what anyone should be using for a Lancair approach =
speed.&nbsp;=20
Most importantly,&nbsp;15 units AOA is equivalent to&nbsp;a speed at =
which sink=20
rate cannot be reduced with stick.&nbsp; The only way to do it is with =
power and=20
in some of the a/c I flew, power response was a lot less than =
instantaneous. AOA=20
picked up sink much quicker than an airspeed indicator and allowed =
quicker, and=20
therefore smaller power adjustments.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D735164213-25092004></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D735164213-25092004>Lancair teaches a 100 kt. approach =
speed all=20
the way to flare.&nbsp; With 300 hrs + in the airplane, I now use 90 on =
short=20
final in smooth air and, if I am going into a short strip, 85.&nbsp; In =
rough=20
air, I am at 100 the whole way.&nbsp; That's 41 kts. over my stall =
speed.&nbsp;=20
I could easily pull 2G on flare and not stall.&nbsp; For that kind of =
approach,=20
an airspeed indicator works fine.</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
VTAILJEFF@aol.com=20
  [mailto:VTAILJEFF@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 24, 2004 =
2:59=20
  PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [LML] Re: AOA, stalls =
etc<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>In a message dated 9/23/2004 12:19:28 PM Central Standard Time,=20
  marv@lancaironline.net writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial>Comments from a former nasal radiator:&nbsp; we used =
AOA for=20
    approaches flown <BR>so<BR>as to be able to land on aircraft =
carriers.&nbsp;=20
    Approach speed was two-three<BR>knots above 1G stall speed and was =
the speed=20
    at which ANY elevator input<BR>increased sink rate.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
  <DIV>Perhaps your memory is a little off... but "on speed" AOA was not =
2 to 3=20
  knots above 1 G stall speed. If that was the case, I would have had to =
use the=20
  Martin Baker alternate landing device&nbsp;many times. :)</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Regards,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Jeff Edwards</DIV>
  <DIV>A-6 bomardier/ navigator</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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