Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:58:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.6) with ESMTP id 2733081 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:14:07 -0500 Received: from Tubamanflies@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id q.19e.1cd60955 (4552) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: Tubamanflies@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <19e.1cd60955.2ce80d39@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:14:01 EST Subject: Re: [LML] kinetic energy X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_19e.1cd60955.2ce80d39_boundary" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 --part1_19e.1cd60955.2ce80d39_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary, My problems with the Matco brakes were probably due to a number of things. The first set failed because the piston jammed in the caliper and did not retract. This allowed the brakes to drag and overheat. The pads died very quickly and it even melted the brake line, nylon tube. I think the main problem is in how they mount on the Lancair. Because they grip from the inside of the disk rather than the outside the piston is not centered on the pad. With the uneven pressure the pad wears at an angle. This not only reduces the brake pressure but will sometimes cause the piston to jam in the caliper. I believe the second set failed because the damage caused by the first failure was not picked up. The way the brakes are designed the disk is mounted on the wheel like a hubcap with a hole in the center You cannot see the inner disk surface unless the disk is removed. When I did remove the disks both wheels had very heavy scoring on the hidden surface. That in combination with the non centerd piston did not allow enough brake pressure to hold the plane at RPMs above 1600 to 1700. So far the new brakes have solved the holding problem and do not require a lot of pedel pressure. The braking action on roll out is also much improved. And finally when I do get around to changing the pads I will not have to remove the wheels. I don't know what kind of brakes the ES has but if they are anything like the original matco's take a real good look at how the caliper and disk line up. Ray Gardner In a message dated 11/15/03 7:37:08 AM Central Standard Time, glcasey@adelphia.net writes: > Right, Ray, and that brings up a question: I have read of similar > complaints, basically of insufficient brake torque available with a > reasonable pedal force - nothing to do with brake thermal capacity. This > could be from a degradation of friction coefficient for whatever reason or > inadequate pressure. I'm tempted to change the master cylinder geometry to > reduce pedal force on my ES. Anyone done that? Is it necessary? > Desirable? My judgment is that you should always be able to lock up the > wheels without superhuman effort. > > Gary Casey > --part1_19e.1cd60955.2ce80d39_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary, 

My problems with the Matco brakes were probably due to a number of things.&n= bsp; The first set failed because the piston jammed in the caliper and did n= ot retract.  This allowed the brakes to drag and overheat.  The pa= ds died very quickly and it even melted the brake line, nylon tube.  I=20= think the main problem is in how they mount on the Lancair.  Because th= ey grip from the inside of the disk rather than the outside the piston is no= t centered on the pad.  With the uneven pressure the pad wears at an an= gle.  This not only reduces the brake pressure but will sometimes cause= the piston to jam in the caliper. 

I believe the second set failed because the damage caused by the first failu= re was not picked up.  The way the brakes are designed the disk is moun= ted on the wheel like a hubcap with a hole in the center  You cannot se= e the inner disk surface unless the disk is removed.   When I did=20= remove the disks both wheels had very heavy scoring on the hidden surface.&n= bsp; That in combination with the non centerd piston did not allow enough br= ake pressure to hold the plane at RPMs above 1600 to 1700.

So far the new brakes have solved the holding problem and do not require a l= ot of pedel pressure.  The braking action on roll out is also much impr= oved.  And finally when I do get around to changing the pads I will not= have to remove the wheels.

I don't know what kind of brakes the ES has but if they are anything like th= e original matco's take a real good look at how the caliper and disk line up= .

Ray Gardner

In a message dated 11/15/03 7:37:08 AM Central Standard Time, glcasey@adelph= ia.net writes:

Right, Ray, and that brings up=20= a question:  I have read of similar
complaints, basically of insufficient brake torque available with a
reasonable pedal force - nothing to do with brake thermal capacity.  Th= is
could be from a degradation of friction coefficient for whatever reason or inadequate pressure.  I'm tempted to change the master cylinder geometr= y to
reduce pedal force on my ES.  Anyone done that?  Is it necessary?<= BR> Desirable?  My judgment is that you should always be able to lock up th= e
wheels without superhuman effort.

Gary Casey


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