Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:12:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from lakemtao07.cox.net ([68.1.17.114] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.5) with ESMTP id 2649556 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:24:56 -0400 Received: from i5n6v3 ([68.12.62.247]) by lakemtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031024162456.PCNZ21605.lakemtao07.cox.net@i5n6v3> for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:24:56 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <002901c39a5c$406c1640$6401a8c0@tu.ok.cox.net> From: "adam woodard" X-Original-To: Subject: composite safety X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:25:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C39A21.93D34280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C39A21.93D34280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently had a disconcerting conversation with an engineer. Like me, = he was also a flight enthusiast. Unlike me, he was not thrilled with my = dreams of fast glass. (For the record, I didn't mention any specific = model--I just told him I was looking at a cross-country cruiser and an = amphib. Because of this, I know he didn't have any bad experiences and = was biased against them.) Later I learned why he was dismayed. It was = not because of the composite construction--it was because of the epoxy = that we use for the structural adhesive. When I asked him what he meant, = he told me that he had published a paper on it. He then proceeded to = tell me about how epoxy is hard, brittle, and porous (on a microscopic = level). The first trait I thought was a good idea. The second two I = wasn't too sure about. He explained to me that the issue that worried = him was fatigue. NOT of the composite structure but the epoxy itself. In = a traditional metal aircraft, you can x-ray structures to determine = their state of fatigue and replace the hinge pins, bolts, etc if needed. = He said that you can not do this w/ the epoxy. In a nutshell . I = don't know if he is talking about delamination or what--I'm still a = low-time PP.=20 Can anyone explain these views to me? I've been thinking about how to be = able to afford one of these aircraft at some point in the future and = this was not at all what I was wanting to hear. I see four basic = options.=20 1). My friend just didn't have much experience with airframes. 2). He is wrong about these structural properties. 3). He is correct about the nature of the materials. He is incorrect = about their affects on airframe cohesion and those traits only show up = on the microscopic level. 4). He is correct about everything flew it once, and then grounded it and sold it>> = , and these are not safe systems of construction. I do not believe that option four is correct. If it is, that would mean = that several thousand pilots have simply = ignored a safety risk of a very large magnitude. I also believe that FAA = would have outlawed such systems as a "significant safety risk". I = sincerely hope it is the second option--I've been dreaming about one day = owning these beautiful aircraft since day 3 of my primary flight = training.=20 Any info and help will be greatly appreciated, Adam=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C39A21.93D34280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I recently had a disconcerting conversation with an engineer. Like = me, he was=20 also a flight enthusiast. Unlike me, he was not thrilled with my dreams = of fast=20 glass. (For the record, I didn't mention any specific model--I just told = him I=20 was looking at a cross-country cruiser and an amphib. Because of this, I = know he=20 didn't have any bad experiences and was biased against them.) Later I = learned=20 why he was dismayed. It was not because of the composite = construction--it was=20 because of the epoxy that we use for the structural adhesive. When I = asked him=20 what he meant, he told me that he had published a paper on it. He then = proceeded=20 to tell me about how epoxy is hard, brittle, and porous (on a = microscopic=20 level). The first trait I thought was a good idea. The second two I = wasn't too=20 sure about. He explained to me that the issue that worried him was = fatigue. NOT=20 of the composite structure but the epoxy itself. In a traditional metal=20 aircraft, you can x-ray structures to determine their state of fatigue = and=20 replace the hinge pins, bolts, etc if needed. He said that you can not = do this=20 w/ the epoxy. In a nutshell <these types of joints don't fail little = by=20 little. When they fail, they fail catastrophically and we have no way of = determining when that will be>. I don't know if he is talking about=20 delamination or what--I'm still a low-time PP.

Can anyone explain these views to me? I've been thinking about how to = be able=20 to afford one of these aircraft at some point in the future and this was = not at=20 all what I was wanting to hear. I see four basic options.

1). My friend just didn't have much experience with airframes. <he = is a=20 chemical engineer>

2). He is wrong about these structural properties. <which I don't = agree=20 with--he does make these chemicals>

3). He is correct about the nature of the materials. He is incorrect = about=20 their affects on airframe cohesion and those traits only show up on the=20 microscopic level.

4). He is correct about everything <including these airplanes have = no=20 value after ten years. he said he knows a pilot that was given one, = <not a=20 Lancair or Aerocomp> flew it once, and then grounded it and sold = it>> ,=20 and these are not safe systems of construction.

I do not believe that option four is correct. If it is, that would = mean that=20 several thousand pilots <and several hundred companies> have = simply=20 ignored a safety risk of a very large magnitude. I also believe that FAA = would=20 have outlawed such systems as a "significant safety risk". I sincerely = hope it=20 is the second option--I've been dreaming about one day owning these = beautiful=20 aircraft since day 3 of my primary flight training.

Any info and help will be greatly appreciated,

Adam

<I changed my email address from 225PT due to=20 spam..>

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C39A21.93D34280--