Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> (Marvin Kaye)
To: lml
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:33:32 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-2480407@logan.com>
From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Essential Buss versus Fuel Endurance
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Shannon,

I am sorry if you took the last post to mean that I was calling you a "punk". 
I did not intend you to take it that way but rather posted it to ask you if 
you feel lucky. Unfortunately, we are discussing apples and oranges. You are 
discussing hardware (electrical system) and I am talking about decision making. 

I am a multi thousand hour ATP with multiple CFI ratings and am also a 
Designated PIlto examiner as well as a former Naval Flight Office (A-6 Intruders). I 
am also an aircraft accident investigator with over 10 years experience and 
many hundreds of aircraft accidents investigated under my belt. I have also 
built and flown my own LIVP. From my limited experience, it is my opinion that if 
man can design it, and build it, it will eventually fail-- and probably not 
in the most fault tolerant way possible. The Challenger and Columbia are two 
good examples. 

Also I can tell you that as a much younger NFO in an A-6, I took off one day 
in an Intruder with a generator that wouldn't stay on line--thinking, like 
you, "no big deal, I've got a second generator, a ram air turbine and a battery 
for backup--quadruple redundancy. Shortly after takeoff, EVERYTHING failed, 
second gen, RAT and the battery-- oh yeah, we were IMC. Try flying in IMC in a 
fighter jet with your 2" peanut gyro spinning down to nothing. Fortunately we 
found a small hole, got underneath and found our way back to base where there 
was a 400' ceiling and 1 mile vis. My decision to take off was a bad one. The 
hardware redundancy failed me and almost cost me my life. 

What amazes me about this list is the abundance of pilots who are willing to 
risk their lives to "limp" on to the destination with a failed "this" or 
broken "that", to penetrate thunderstorms, press into icing,  duck under minimums, 
perform low altitude "airshows", etc. Many pilots takes thes kinds of risk 
every day and do OK, some do not. 

Do the names Durrizzi and Moser ring a bell? Durrizzi took a LIVP cross 
country with out a fully tested & functioning fuel system. Moser took a LIV into 
severe convective weather without a working stormscope. THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO 
LIVE TO BE AN OLD PILOT. What would your wife or mother say sitting there in 
the right seat? "Get me on the ground NOW"

I invite you to come to Oshkosh and listen to my Forum presentation on "Pilot 
Malpractice, Learning From Accidents" I will present it on Thursday, July 
31st a 4:00 pm in Air BP Pavilion #4. 

I am not trying to "flame" you or others on this list-- I am just trying to 
pass along  the benefit of my experience and urge you to fly conservatively and 
prudently.  There are too many great, experienced pilots who just monitor 
this list every day but don't chime in because they are tired of discussing 
"prudent" flying with guys who don't get it. Start "getting it". You are discussing 
hardware. Hardware will always fail you. Good decision making won't.  

Jeff Edwards
"fly safe"