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Thanks Mark,
I already had the sizes; I was hoping for actual part numbers. Thanks for going to the trouble to look this up though.
Ken Powell
-------------- Original message --------------
Ken,
Following is part of a message I had saved concerning TES o-rings that gives the sizes for the Oil o-rings. I'm pretty sure this is the sizes I used when I ordered the o-rings for my engine, and they fit perfectly.
Mark
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Oil O-rings.
I checked the installation of the oil O-rings with the new
sizes I got from Creavey. They worked perfectly and were
very easy to install. You will need a little O-ring lube
and a 2 by 8 to install them. They were also easy to remove
with no signs of distortion.
One of the secrets is if you reuse the old oil scraper rings
they must be spotlessly clean inside and out. Soak them
in carb cleaner for a few days. If you use new scraper rings
this will not be a problem of course.
The second thing to watch out for is don't nick the
rotor wall between the two scraper rings when you remove them.
Very very important!!
These can be the same or just a little more than the
stock oil O-rings from Mazda.
The proper oil O-ring sizes are:
0.093" section 4.68 inch ID
0.118" section 4.33 inch ID
I can vouch for the quality of the Creavey O-rings but some
of those water TES o-rings from Mcmaster Carr I have seen
are not as good. This is not to say they won't work. They just
don't look as good around the joints as Creavey O-rings.
Viton is good only to 400 degrees F. The center of the rotor runs
as high as 500 degrees F. I think 400 degrees F leaves's too
little of a safety margin when 500 degrees F is available
in TES O-rings at the same price probably.
Hope this helps.
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I had saved this At 06:29 PM 7/18/2004 -0500, you wrote:
Ken,
Yes, TES for oil and water. Don't have the p/n's handy. I'll have to dig them
out of the arcives, but I'll post them when I have found them.
Mark
Quoting kenpowell@comcast.net:
> Mark,
> Do you have TES orings on the rotor oil seals? If so, where did you get them
> and what were the part numbers?
> Thanks, Ken Powell
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > Dale,
> > If I can put my 2 cents worth in here. Keep in mind that we're measuring
> the
> > oil temps as it leaves the cooler and is about to re-enter the engine, so
> the
> > oil gets considerably hotter as it goes through the galleys and is sprayed
> into
> > the rotors. So, 210 degrees is the starting point and the temps go up from
>
> > there until the oil finally reaches the cooler again. Is anyone measuring
> the
> > oil temp leaving the engine?
> >
> > Mark S.
> > (20B with TES o-rings)
> >
> > Quoting Dale Smith :
> >
> > > Ed Anderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dale , the problem with oil temps in the rotary is that the oil might
> > > > be able to stand considerably higher temps (particularly the synthetic
>
> > > > oil as you point out), but the engine suffers.
> > > >
> > > > At least with the older and earlier 13B blocks, overheating could
> > > > and did cause damage at a temperature range far below where you would
> > > > have to worry about the oil decomposing. Overheating apparently caused
>
> > > > the seals to "chatter" against the housing as well as reportedly
> > > > "shrinkage" of the aluminum rotor housings. The guidelines were a
> > > > maximum of 210F after the oil cooler for the oil and 180F out of the
> > > > engine block for the coolant. Now, we have found that at least with
> > > > the new blocks the engines will apparently handle higher temps without
>
> > > > adverse effects. Apparently short excursions as high as 240F on the
> > > > oil and 220-230F with the coolant can be tolerated without damage -
> > > > but, the feeling is that extended operations at those temps is risking
>
> > > > damage.
> > > >
> > > > The newer blocks seem to be considerably more tolerant of somewhat
> > > > higher temps reportedly due to changes in the castings, but I and
> > > > others have found to our dismay that exceeding that magic number
> > > > (whatever it may be) you do at risk. So that is why you will see more
> > > > concern with oil and coolant temps with the rotary at a lower
> > > > temperature than would normally cause concern with a reciprocating
> engine.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > Steve ... re: the above underlined.
> > > >
> > > > I would say that what you have is just fine regarding your oil
> > > > temp. Remember that the "delta T" between where you are running
> > > > and the temperature at where it quits working is quite high.
> > > > Especially if you are using synthetic oil. Molbil I keeps
> > > > lubricating quite well up past 400 degrees and beyond. Thus, if
> > > > you are running temps near 200 degrees you have near a 200 degree
> > > > temp spread (delta T) between what the oil can take away and what
> > > > it IS taking away in BTU's of heat dissipation in a stable
> > > > system. That is a pretty fat safety margin, when you figure you
> > > > can run 100 degrees hotter than what you are now and still have
> > > > 100 degrees left before lubrication failure is imminent.
> > > > Obviously, lower is better.
> > > >
> > > > Water cooling now is a different story. operating coolant at
> > > > temps near 200 while water boils at 212 ... gives you a delta T of
> > > > just 12 degrees to play with. I know you can kick it up by
> > > > anti-freeze, pressure on the system, etc. etc. but the bottom
> > > > line is that you have a lot narrower delta T range to deal with,
> > > > and you are always working the system a lot closer to near it's
> > > > maximum potential for heat dissipation.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought,
> > > >
> > > > Dale Smith
> > > >
> > > Thanks Ed, I value your insights.
> > >
> > > I know that seal chatter was an early development problem with the
> > > wankel, but thought that Mazda had pretty much made it a thing of the
> > > past with modern materials, geometry, and springs. I did not realize
> > > that this was a temperature dependent problem, that we still had to deal
>
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Also, not quite sure what you mean re: "shrinkage of the aluminum rotor
> > > housings"? It can't shrink with heat. By this do you mean that, that
> > > having exceeded some elasticity limit, the aluminum cannot return to
> > > it's original specs upon shutdown once it has been overheated?
> > > Wouldn't it thus be oversize? Please explain ... this sure sounds like
> > > an "engine killer".
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Dale Smith
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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