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Ken,
Following is part of a message I had saved concerning TES o-rings that
gives the sizes for the Oil o-rings. I'm pretty sure this is the
sizes I used when I ordered the o-rings for my engine, and they fit
perfectly.
Mark
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Oil O-rings.
I checked the installation of the oil O-rings with the new
sizes I got from Creavey. They worked perfectly and were
very easy to install. You will need a little O-ring lube
and a 2 by 8 to install them. They were also easy to remove
with no signs of distortion.
One of the secrets is if you reuse the old oil scraper rings
they must be spotlessly clean inside and out. Soak them
in carb cleaner for a few days. If you use new scraper rings
this will not be a problem of course.
The second thing to watch out for is don't nick the
rotor wall between the two scraper rings when you remove them.
Very very important!!
These can be the same or just a little more than the
stock oil O-rings from Mazda.
The proper oil O-ring sizes are:
0.093" section 4.68 inch ID
0.118" section 4.33 inch ID
I can vouch for the quality of the Creavey O-rings but some
of those water TES o-rings from Mcmaster Carr I have seen
are not as good. This is not to say they won't work. They just
don't look as good around the joints as Creavey O-rings.
Viton is good only to 400 degrees F. The center of the rotor runs
as high as 500 degrees F. I think 400 degrees F leaves's too
little of a safety margin when 500 degrees F is available
in TES O-rings at the same price probably.
Hope this helps.
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I had saved this At 06:29 PM 7/18/2004 -0500, you wrote:
Ken,
Yes, TES for oil and water. Don't have the p/n's handy. I'll
have to dig them
out of the arcives, but I'll post them when I have found them.
Mark
Quoting kenpowell@comcast.net:
> Mark,
> Do you have TES orings on the rotor oil seals? If so, where
did you get them
> and what were the part numbers?
> Thanks, Ken Powell
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > Dale,
> > If I can put my 2 cents worth in here. Keep in mind that we're
measuring
> the
> > oil temps as it leaves the cooler and is about to re-enter the
engine, so
> the
> > oil gets considerably hotter as it goes through the galleys and
is sprayed
> into
> > the rotors. So, 210 degrees is the starting point and the temps
go up from
>
> > there until the oil finally reaches the cooler again. Is anyone
measuring
> the
> > oil temp leaving the engine?
> >
> > Mark S.
> > (20B with TES o-rings)
> >
> > Quoting Dale Smith :
> >
> > > Ed Anderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dale , the problem with oil temps in the rotary is
that the oil might
> > > > be able to stand considerably higher temps
(particularly the synthetic
>
> > > > oil as you point out), but the engine suffers.
> > > >
> > > > At least with the older and earlier 13B blocks,
overheating could
> > > > and did cause damage at a temperature range far below
where you would
> > > > have to worry about the oil decomposing. Overheating
apparently caused
>
> > > > the seals to "chatter" against the housing
as well as reportedly
> > > > "shrinkage" of the aluminum rotor housings.
The guidelines were a
> > > > maximum of 210F after the oil cooler for the oil and
180F out of the
> > > > engine block for the coolant. Now, we have found that
at least with
> > > > the new blocks the engines will apparently handle
higher temps without
>
> > > > adverse effects. Apparently short excursions as high
as 240F on the
> > > > oil and 220-230F with the coolant can be tolerated
without damage -
> > > > but, the feeling is that extended operations at those
temps is risking
>
> > > > damage.
> > > >
> > > > The newer blocks seem to be considerably more
tolerant of somewhat
> > > > higher temps reportedly due to changes in the
castings, but I and
> > > > others have found to our dismay that exceeding that
magic number
> > > > (whatever it may be) you do at risk. So that is why
you will see more
> > > > concern with oil and coolant temps with the rotary at
a lower
> > > > temperature than would normally cause concern with a
reciprocating
> engine.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > Steve ... re: the above underlined.
> > > >
> > > > I would say that what you have is just fine regarding
your oil
> > > > temp. Remember that the "delta T" between
where you are running
> > > > and the temperature at where it quits working is
quite high.
> > > > Especially if you are using synthetic oil. Molbil I
keeps
> > > > lubricating quite well up past 400 degrees and
beyond. Thus, if
> > > > you are running temps near 200 degrees you have near
a 200 degree
> > > > temp spread (delta T) between what the oil can take
away and what
> > > > it IS taking away in BTU's of heat dissipation in a
stable
> > > > system. That is a pretty fat safety margin, when you
figure you
> > > > can run 100 degrees hotter than what you are now and
still have
> > > > 100 degrees left before lubrication failure is
imminent.
> > > > Obviously, lower is better.
> > > >
> > > > Water cooling now is a different story. operating
coolant at
> > > > temps near 200 while water boils at 212 ... gives you
a delta T of
> > > > just 12 degrees to play with. I know you can kick it
up by
> > > > anti-freeze, pressure on the system, etc. etc. but
the bottom
> > > > line is that you have a lot narrower delta T range to
deal with,
> > > > and you are always working the system a lot closer to
near it's
> > > > maximum potential for heat dissipation.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought,
> > > >
> > > > Dale Smith
> > > >
> > > Thanks Ed, I value your insights.
> > >
> > > I know that seal chatter was an early development problem
with the
> > > wankel, but thought that Mazda had pretty much made it a
thing of the
> > > past with modern materials, geometry, and springs. I did
not realize
> > > that this was a temperature dependent problem, that we
still had to deal
>
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Also, not quite sure what you mean re: "shrinkage of
the aluminum rotor
> > > housings"? It can't shrink with heat. By this do you
mean that, that
> > > having exceeded some elasticity limit, the aluminum cannot
return to
> > > it's original specs upon shutdown once it has been
overheated?
> > > Wouldn't it thus be oversize? Please explain ... this sure
sounds like
> > > an "engine killer".
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Dale Smith
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >> Homepage:
http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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