----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Brooks

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:00 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 11th test flight

Jack,

I think that the redline on the rotary for oil temperature of 240F is more a factor for the rubber seals rather than for the oil.  I am running synthetic oil, which doesn’t breakdown until quite a high temperature, but according to what I’ve been told, and read, the seals can be damaged way before you have oil breakdown issues.

 

I did take the thermostat out, but the stock thermostat that was in my engine was 195 degrees, so 200 certainly seems to be a reasonable temperature.

 

Steve Brooks

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Jack Ford
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 11th test flight

 

You dasn't ever want to run straight H2O in your cooling system.

I just went out to the shop and checked a container label for engine coolant (Wal-Mart variety). Sez boiling point for 50/50 mixture with H2O is 265 deg.F.

Put a 16 psi cap on that and it goes up some more.

If coolant and lubricant failure are the criteria for establishing redline temps,  my post of the other day is valid.

I think 210-220 degree temps should be good running temps, not redlines. Modern (Post model A) engines run more efficiently at those temperatures.

But I'd still like to hear an opinion from a 13b authority or two if there are other criteria for coolant and oil temperature limits.

FWIW, again,

Jack Ford

----- Original Message -----

From: Dale Smith

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:18 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 11th test flight

 

Steve Brooks wrote:

I made a test flight today with the new scoop, but also wit cooler OAT (70F)

than I've seen in the last couple weeks.  I flew for 6 tenths of an hour

with temperatures for the oil at 207 and coolant 200 stabilized at 4700

RPMs.  I increased the throttle to 5300 RPMs and the coolant stayed put, and

the oil increased by only 3 degrees.  I was about 1500 AGL for the entire

flight. I did descend a few hundred feet and climb a few hundred feet to

watch the temperatures, but usually was flying a level circle around the

airport.  I reduced the throttle to 4300, and maintained level flight at

about 105 kts.  Oil dropped to 195 and coolant to 190.

I guess that the good news is the I could fly all day at those temperatures,

and I never saw any temperatures higher than 210, though I really didn't do

an extended climb.  I really didn't push level cruise higher than 5300 (135

kts), but the temperatures seemed to be holding, and actually the oil

dropped a degree after letting it stabilize a couple of minutes.

The bad news is that the scoop appears to be costing me about 10 kts, which

I was expecting.  I also don't have any wheel pants yet on the main gear, so

it's not like I'm out to win any speed test at this point anyways.  My oil

continues to run higher than the coolant which indicates to me that I need

to do some more baffling to divert more air to the oil cooler.

I also have not done any filling or finishing to the scoop, so it's surface

is more like sandpaper right now.  Finishing it will probably improve air

flow some more, and also reduce some of the drag.   I left the scoop on the

plane for now, so that I can hopefully get another flight in tomorrow

morning.  My plan tomorrow is to climb up to 5000' and see what I get there.

Then I'll remove the scoop, which takes about 5 minutes, and bring it home

for some filling and sanding.  And after a few more flights, and more

filling and sanding, some primer and paint.

I am still looking at this as a "hot weather scoop".  My plan is to remove

it during cool weather, and re-install it for June-August.  I mount the

scoop using 6 10-32 SS screws into nutplates embedded in the landing gear

cover, plus 2 of the screws that mount the landing gear cover to the

fuselage.  It's not likely to come off on its own.

Steve Brooks

Cozy MKIV

Turbo Rotary - 6.3 hours and counting

Steve ... re: the above underlined.

I would say that what you have is just fine regarding your oil temp.  Remember that the "delta T" between where you are running and the temperature at where it quits working is quite high.  Especially if you are using synthetic oil.   Molbil I keeps lubricating quite well up past 400 degrees and beyond.    Thus, if you are running temps near 200 degrees you have near a 200 degree temp spread (delta T) between what the oil can take away and what it IS taking away in BTU's of heat dissipation in a stable system.    That is a pretty fat safety margin, when you figure you can run 100 degrees hotter than what you are now and still have 100 degrees left before lubrication failure is imminent.  Obviously, lower is better.

Water cooling now is a different story.   operating coolant at temps near 200 while water boils at 212 ... gives you a delta T of just 12 degrees to play with.   I know you can kick it up by anti-freeze, pressure on the system, etc. etc.   but the bottom line is that you have a lot narrower delta T range to deal with, and you are always working the system a lot closer to near it's maximum potential for heat dissipation.

Just a thought,

Dale Smith