X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from pmg.Logan.com ([207.170.160.161] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 3679118 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 00:47:00 -0500 Received: from pmg.Logan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 676771DC01 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 00:46:59 -0500 (EST) Received-SPF: none (martinag.com.au: No applicable sender policy available) receiver=pmg.Logan.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="andrew@martinag.com.au"; helo=mail-vk1-f169.google.com; client-ip=209.85.221.169 Received: from mail-vk1-f169.google.com (mail-vk1-f169.google.com [209.85.221.169]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 00:46:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-vk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-50d34db4edeso2803924e0c.0 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 21:46:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1730785612; x=1731390412; darn=lancaironline.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7w2agosELo5dfHbfPjUQAclEMZXtEdlxHQbK2Koj7uk=; b=g6XmS9zdYgd1sg3rqNk8V6/H0w8MueBWitgkv3UaTOFKAV3fkeq/NjL4tbxstlgk0W YG9yccdTZ4plRwcIK9HPJX1Ocw71M/396K/drrL+wEsw7GZ4MMnZoGj9WihNxzu7dqhB 6KGZp7BlA6/2yFQ3Lh8bTn/YJpKdxY0Kfs8411yXV5vST9I+RiP57f/sWFIruwOsMjVP pyZQ8xbQxAJJIPtaE1r/t36rdkkHteZNuIYIUuLNtbd2/0su+CrXBksrW63iJsh5INnP vUxQ+4fgJqWWy41xfJ/OJ/9lLQUg6NnfkPbCsP/mEc3q/8qyFtCwQUC8Z+h9vX1Leoq8 8j4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730785612; x=1731390412; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7w2agosELo5dfHbfPjUQAclEMZXtEdlxHQbK2Koj7uk=; b=FIkiUdvWUEOk9ZXdEyHflrBLgNFflcD+CgI2jnkF3vcuGIAXbxdpSNTabWHMLVEnQ2 tqjEpmBAV3JKBMCm7tp6+R2W3W4OPb37jfLlWoAJAhI8djA17ix3W7uiTz3r2V9bfDqr Y4g9DsLFMUKXtdZzUhh5Yh9dAprbK/jQ5URNUd4Cka/Dx4LRTdAm0ge6itK0WX/v0TY8 EvcPEBvtLZnp0IA8qs78vbJdDsue2i2FZkqnjaipNZjjyaywrnoyX4qXHzdyXhiACMS5 TrCgTn9Dpz1fxBOd1vVmGSuwTzZ7nfY9dZuEk8QHRAtZZigPLFOOIGkK3/fnHZZWREF7 G0zg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzowBb04ZQRq2WBV55gY+NZ7NzOa1UAhXVbmVnV1/MF1gxVhkcb a/IKVEjXBZELD6McCjnRKuohtT0xomfejZzZhKfKPBXV/cLrangw3UP4WIP960jAAfKOTrj1Lzl aoQyJkeXTXHK6T+FTanGikrSUUHCa7Bw3b+w7JPrV5Spk23M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGffJd8z93hbzShMcYt0xu122hsDxqifNfpXubbJPbpBxJBHxgOsU4NAVjxve1pmiE6EPrrFOgG2waKpQIDJfA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d2d2:b0:20c:f261:24f3 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-21119446ebamr226417675ad.17.1730781506845; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 20:38:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:38:12 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis oil pressure To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e66335062622f83a" X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.377 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DMARC_MISSING 0.1 Missing DMARC policy HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 -0.001 Average reputation (+2) SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_NONE 0.001 SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record --000000000000e66335062622f83a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah mine is 4 port series 1. Nothing to compare, oil pressure always been around 80 psi at rear iron. Early on I had a flow restriction issue from the original oil cooler, which resulted in high temps, hense my earlier suggestion to check pressure at front cover. Andrew On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 10:38 Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com, < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Andrew. > > I have used various weight oils. Not a huge difference. > Is your engine a Seres 1 or 2? > Do you have a log of oil pressures and temps to compare with mine. > I was under the impression that other rotaries increase in pressure > substantially with rpm. > > Steve > > On 5 Nov 2024, at 8:48=E2=80=AFam, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Steve, why such a heavy weight oil? > Maybe try a 5w30 mineral or semi syn oil. > Andrew > > On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 06:56 Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Thanks Doug. Yes, Racingbeat does have some helpful material. >> >> My question is the =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish oil pressure on RPM = rise? >> >> NOTE: I did have a very high rpm and therefore high pressure event on >> initial start years ago that may have damaged something in the oil syste= m >> path. >> I=E2=80=99m endeavouring to discover what this might be. >> >> Recent and consistent data: (Renesis Series #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop - >> Oil Pressure reading tested within ~2psi, Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 Row >> Mocal Oil Cooler) >> >> Lined Up Before TakeOff OAT 74F 60psi @ 2100rpm OilT 142F >> Wide Open Throttle +10 seconds 65psi @ 7200rpm >> +2 mins (WOT and CS Prop Set) 51psi @ 6400rpm OilT peaks 207F >> >> So Oil Pressure only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm (5100rpm >> increase) >> Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil Pressure then settle down >> to 51psi. >> >> I think I have clarified in the last day that the Renesis series 1 front >> cover to front iron path uses a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an o-ring= . >> This discounts the possibility of an o-ring failure causing oil to be >> dumped back into sump just after the pump. >> It appears I was led astray by a schematic drawing that showed the RX8 >> series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in the front cover to iron >> path. >> >> So, I am now investigating the likelihood of the following possible >> failure points and the work required before committing and jumping into >> getting dirty. >> 1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged? >> 2. Front relief valve - Could the Spring break or otherwise be cracking >> at a much lower pressure? >> 3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. Above. >> 4. Thermal Pellet delete - Could I have messed this up or damaged the oi= l >> path when I replaced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99s part. >> >> My assumptions include: >> 1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will have a lower pressure drop than the >> OEM cooler/s >> 2. Oil Pressure should rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, maybe >> 75psi @ >6000rpm in a Series #1. >> >> Appreciate further consideration as I try and figure this out. >> >> Thanks >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 4 Nov 2024, at 8:31=E2=80=AFpm, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM dlomheim@aol.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BFRacing Beat has always provided good background info, and here= =E2=80=99s a link >> to their discussion / products to increase oil pressure=E2=80=A6 >> >> Rotary Tech Tips: Oil Cooling Tips >> >> racingbeat.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Doug >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> > --000000000000e66335062622f83a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah mine is 4 port series 1.
Nothi= ng to compare, oil pressure always been around 80 psi at rear iron.
Early on I had a flow restriction issue from the original o= il cooler, which resulted in high temps, hense my earlier suggestion to che= ck pressure at front cover.
Andrew

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 10:38 Stephen Izet= t stephen.izett@gmail.com, &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:
Hi Andrew.=C2=A0

I have used = various weight oils. Not a huge difference.
Is your engine a Sere= s 1 or 2?
Do you have a log of oil pressures and temps to compare= with mine.
I was under the impression that other rotaries increa= se in pressure substantially with rpm.

Steve

On 5 Nov 2024, at 8:48=E2=80=AFam, Andrew Martin a= ndrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Steve, why such a heavy weight oil?= =C2=A0
Maybe try a 5w30 mineral or semi syn oil.
Andrew

On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 06:56 Stephen Izett st= ephen.izett@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Thanks Doug. Yes, Racingbeat does have some helpful materi= al.

My question is the =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish = oil pressure on RPM rise?

NOTE: I did have a very = high rpm and therefore high pressure event on initial start years ago that = may have damaged something in the oil system path.
I=E2=80=99m en= deavouring to discover what this might be.

Recent = and consistent data: (Renesis Series #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop - Oil Pressu= re reading tested within ~2psi, Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 Row Mocal Oil Co= oler)

Lined Up=C2=A0Before TakeOff=C2=A0OAT 74F=C2=A0 60psi @ 2100rpm OilT 142F
Wide Open Throttle +10 seconds =C2=A0 = 65psi @ 7200rpm
+2 m= ins (WOT and CS Prop Set) 51p= si @ 6400rpm OilT peaks 207F

So Oil Pressure = only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm (5100rpm increase)
=
Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil Pressure then settle= down to 51psi.

I think I have clarified in = the last day that the Renesis series 1 front cover to front iron path uses = a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an o-ring.
This discounts th= e possibility of an o-ring failure causing oil to be dumped back into sump = just after the pump.
It appears I was led astray by a schematic d= rawing that showed the RX8 series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in = the front cover to iron path.

So, I am now investi= gating the likelihood of the following possible failure points and the work= required before committing and jumping into getting dirty.=C2=A0
1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged?
2. Front relief valve - Cou= ld the Spring break or otherwise be cracking at a much lower pressure?
3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. Above.
4. Thermal Pel= let delete - Could I have messed this up or damaged the oil path when I rep= laced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99s part.

My assumptions include:
1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will ha= ve a lower pressure drop than the OEM cooler/s
2. Oil Pressure sh= ould rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, maybe 75psi =C2=A0@ >600= 0rpm in a Series #1.

Appreciate further cons= ideration as I try and figure this out.

Thanks

Steve=C2=A0


<= br>



On 4 Nov 2024, at 8:31=E2=80=AFpm, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM dlomheim@aol.= com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /div>
=EF=BB=BFRacing Beat has a= lways provided good background info, and here=E2=80=99s a link to their dis= cussion / products to increase oil pressure=E2=80=A6

<favico= n.ico>