X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from pmg.Logan.com ([207.170.160.161] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 3678797 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 17:56:33 -0500 Received: from pmg.Logan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DD18F1C6B8 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 17:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'stephen.izett@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=pmg.Logan.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="stephen.izett@gmail.com"; helo=mail-pf1-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.210.178 Received: from mail-pf1-f178.google.com (mail-pf1-f178.google.com [209.85.210.178]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 17:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-71e3fce4a60so3804785b3a.0 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730760991; x=1731365791; darn=lancaironline.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=n1tjgyWsjUiUZDjdEdrC1OkKcq04/lMoRf2GOkTUOHQ=; b=ODubsGQ5XJBLUQToXtJL3jFWQFAtXUXFVo83ziSI5FuHYPjKOWqqaJHaRSbAC1Mlyg bLMSNKmnh6lzYEgbOvo/dkKROWYlR0Q8FfV8WrPgRHCZzqz2pWMSoU2b/xo8gJjUuSam TopqWNbBNw6A2crqF+at6CzSHdotRQeMKZ/g04Xo1kWTo/QA3TPnl/Dqoa3WSWQ6MMOn jy/o/5toA/acWvac1WlPNDOz4ko39H92oE3FjK80fnjx3rPDVqS3VZtFkUOg5oW9k8Nl fwGZHZWiT10l2NVOhUPIkY0nQ1lhq+qKptSNTV6c7dBnEuPMWsz619nIF/InaaOClptL bpoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730760991; x=1731365791; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=n1tjgyWsjUiUZDjdEdrC1OkKcq04/lMoRf2GOkTUOHQ=; b=BmZQzKTaXCsrY5JrxKTQ6OFMdSYnIOR+GokCRF8i0en4Gqke349NBG8tswInenfKMN DdrgcX7e6F/KZlOoISsXmHY388Jn+QSu4Ap9eE7rN/RzNxUNMTMsV546D4XxLlDfFK1O qRXUKYZyinUnzrIBvvUldfMbghBKVMpLhRP9makIvoB/yjtqHADwwxaZH8vSJanFGM0L ip7oIXOByx38QBgmCxGpqkHotCZBJGpUQmu/9HdirWVFSucdHbiRaSz3P94k+JEVkusy ggM5AYhp3CIBZW3tdCxQpGjt2q2PCbso0jKc54yIW2TKKiKtmCWkLTtdW25wKptZleDL 9kzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxAQwZqBtXLxTG4qrgD2AO5KQ8w8fbY2apF4OKwPsN7dfgLlUcr 4RgJPxq7UFrJMeY0JMTpwOR1v27J2tfzXY893TfEFfslILhN3gy9eix93hXDo94= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHmHLt02/LWlngfpx7T9Tu2rGHF3VxSSn0/yIxJm9fjWHJ0ntqkSaBC0ifmTD6mYOMosnPQOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:18a0:b0:71e:786c:3fa9 with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-72062a5d8e2mr52246534b3a.0.1730760990644; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2001:8003:8809:f400:f965:e1f9:a100:3a84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-720bc2eb554sm8147341b3a.161.2024.11.04.14.56.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:56:30 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37CCA2E6-295A-4C5A-BE50-57C2DE733111" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3818.100.11.1.3\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Renesis oil pressure Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 06:56:16 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9BC5711A-CC44-41F9-85A2-29690673CCD4@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3818.100.11.1.3) X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL -0.051 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider FREEMAIL_REPLY 1 From and body contain different freemails HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to DNSWL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#DnsBlocklists-dnsbl-block for more information. RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 0.001 Good reputation (+3) RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL 0.001 Mailspike good senders SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record URIBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [racingbeat.com] --Apple-Mail=_37CCA2E6-295A-4C5A-BE50-57C2DE733111 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Doug. Yes, Racingbeat does have some helpful material. My question is the =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish oil pressure on RPM = rise? NOTE: I did have a very high rpm and therefore high pressure event on = initial start years ago that may have damaged something in the oil = system path. I=E2=80=99m endeavouring to discover what this might be. Recent and consistent data: (Renesis Series #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop - = Oil Pressure reading tested within ~2psi, Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 Row = Mocal Oil Cooler) Lined Up Before TakeOff OAT 74F 60psi @ 2100rpm OilT = 142F Wide Open Throttle +10 seconds 65psi @ 7200rpm +2 mins (WOT and CS Prop Set) 51psi @ 6400rpm OilT = peaks 207F So Oil Pressure only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm (5100rpm = increase) Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil Pressure then settle down = to 51psi. I think I have clarified in the last day that the Renesis series 1 front = cover to front iron path uses a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an = o-ring. This discounts the possibility of an o-ring failure causing oil to be = dumped back into sump just after the pump. It appears I was led astray by a schematic drawing that showed the RX8 = series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in the front cover to iron = path. So, I am now investigating the likelihood of the following possible = failure points and the work required before committing and jumping into = getting dirty.=20 1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged? 2. Front relief valve - Could the Spring break or otherwise be cracking = at a much lower pressure? 3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. Above. 4. Thermal Pellet delete - Could I have messed this up or damaged the = oil path when I replaced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99s part. My assumptions include: 1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will have a lower pressure drop than the = OEM cooler/s 2. Oil Pressure should rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, maybe = 75psi @ >6000rpm in a Series #1. Appreciate further consideration as I try and figure this out. Thanks Steve=20 > On 4 Nov 2024, at 8:31=E2=80=AFpm, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM dlomheim@aol.com = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFRacing Beat has always provided good background info, and = here=E2=80=99s a link to their discussion / products to increase oil = pressure=E2=80=A6 >=20 > = https://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary-tech-tips/oil-tips.htm= l > = https://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary-tech-tips/oil-tips.htm= l >=20 >=20 > Doug >=20 > Sent from my iPhone --Apple-Mail=_37CCA2E6-295A-4C5A-BE50-57C2DE733111 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks Doug. = Yes, Racingbeat does have some helpful material.

My = question is the =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish oil pressure on RPM = rise?

NOTE: I did have a very high rpm and = therefore high pressure event on initial start years ago that may have = damaged something in the oil system path.
I=E2=80=99m = endeavouring to discover what this might = be.

Recent and consistent data: (Renesis Series = #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop - Oil Pressure reading tested within ~2psi, = Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 Row Mocal Oil = Cooler)

Lined Up Before = TakeOff OAT 74F  60psi @ 2100rpm OilT = 142F
Wide Open Throttle +10 seconds =   = 65psi @ 7200rpm
+2 mins (WOT and CS Prop Set) = = 51psi @ 6400rpm OilT peaks 207F

So = Oil Pressure only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm (5100rpm = increase)
Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil = Pressure then settle down to 51psi.

I = think I have clarified in the last day that the Renesis series 1 front = cover to front iron path uses a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an = o-ring.
This discounts the possibility of an o-ring failure = causing oil to be dumped back into sump just after the = pump.
It appears I was led astray by a schematic drawing that = showed the RX8 series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in the front = cover to iron path.

So, I am now investigating = the likelihood of the following possible failure points and the work = required before committing and jumping into getting = dirty. 
1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged?
2. = Front relief valve - Could the Spring break or otherwise be cracking at = a much lower pressure?
3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. = Above.
4. Thermal Pellet delete - Could I have messed this up = or damaged the oil path when I replaced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99= s part.

My assumptions = include:
1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will have a lower = pressure drop than the OEM cooler/s
2. Oil Pressure should = rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, maybe 75psi  @ = >6000rpm in a Series #1.

Appreciate = further consideration as I try and figure this = out.

Thanks

Steve <= /div>






On 4 Nov 2024, at 8:31=E2=80=AFpm, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM = dlomheim@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFRacing Beat has always provided = good background info, and here=E2=80=99s a link to their discussion / = products to increase oil pressure=E2=80=A6