X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 2398594 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:02:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.175; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1c1e3a4a06fso27727335ad.3 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:02:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1694952149; x=1695556949; darn=lancaironline.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MU3/CHUD31r1cULsGTb+d7BOw6e4NBUjI7FV8A0M9Lo=; b=KtF3VHAGOifE4X1FXXL42knilau5GC/1FR192xoXPk0uLPSLokPSQv5Yn0nifJJPA/ z6Z0B2M4RGFsbVebuV+d1tiUADrgFwPx354Yq6gPAdgZZzvMGFSAlkzCuTUplB0PwkkQ mYpThs1W5gO3mp+OjxMy5Oiet78Ttr2Hl+GUe6SazMIkXnGN6xSYRpFHz01JzfI13saF iSjWwUdLT02vIpswMBN4rVxGC7ii9X8Ue/V+g4iKDgU/Vp78222FXJPZoE3ZoLNmM2IB 6E4neyFCDfdacM+6brYuEA0mdaMkoFEXWZutPXuoHermpby5VDXTpCsAu9KyOyiJAzPO Mhpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694952149; x=1695556949; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MU3/CHUD31r1cULsGTb+d7BOw6e4NBUjI7FV8A0M9Lo=; b=FzS+BhKRfjCrqJyGblnw3IahFmYskKRG+p1A+K7KfC+oVJr+PzCbmmBEXF4GwI2Uw/ lQfYYLaXuY1Wni1ud2uZKs28qYmSQza8l6opDeKwZ36kwwn/88eH1WmZ9Iy5UJptf//R Kj6to4XNn4PLEWmeR87gU2iCqi5r3TUADDRR3ImhpEXkonx+mKA1YtyLa68Thgi9H8if yst9207Z2O+XhRGXCw3l6uLMnwdcdKBooQCnVMDApDqkgUSJqzkiWwK4flasrMAuMNUm zxrluR2CkZX4dtjwMEtDUO4tXuB7nL1um9LK5cQWsh+jPbzxHeMXUkUs3YePpMQDslcJ Y05A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQlpB2NAfXYX6uE+8rRJoGoIqQbFMwPDV5X1LhzyyEBdr/QgjF AKRLj+mI1wkm7+HcX6ny/hyBZBCXtj4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGadkxgnnhVVhwSgetg66hTMfNkFa8QhkbhrHAc9Jz4jBxZLNLRrLM1Tc1SxqN4EMk0gHihUQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d491:b0:1c3:e3b1:98df with SMTP id c17-20020a170902d49100b001c3e3b198dfmr6421467plg.52.1694952149037; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from smtpclient.apple (220-235-72-153.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.72.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c9-20020a170903234900b001a5260a6e6csm6514805plh.206.2023.09.17.05.02.27 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AB9535FE-2282-4E4C-A9F7-6456D329A322" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.600.7\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:02:14 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <4CDD53C5-3C91-435E-93E2-A8345A6ED57E@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.600.7) --Apple-Mail=_AB9535FE-2282-4E4C-A9F7-6456D329A322 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Density Altitude - 1600 > On 17 Sep 2023, at 7:53 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >=20 > Hi Finn >=20 > You=E2=80=99ve been busy! >=20 > I=E2=80=99m Renesis 4 port with the EGT=E2=80=99s perhaps in the same = location, close to the ports so may read a little hot. > On my last flight in April before pulling her down for a major refit I = got: > Highest EGT on take off - R2 891C (1636F) @ 7180 RPM, 28.9 in/hg, 17 = Gal/Hr, 87 Lambda (I=E2=80=99m flying a constant speed prop, therefore = the RPM=E2=80=99s) >=20 > I think I missed answering your question recently. > My new system Micromite based (not flown yet) parses data from the = Skyview EFIS serial out and I=E2=80=99m using the Oil Pressure data to = turn on/off the ALM Board. > I use the analog output of the ALM Board into the Skyview to display = Lambda. The output is rock solid. > I=E2=80=99ve been through my first EGT probes and onto the 2nd pair. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Steve >=20 >=20 >> On 17 Sep 2023, at 10:36 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >>=20 >> More discrepancies: highest EGT recorded in todays 30 min flight was = on rotor 2 and was 1803F =3D 894F. EGT probes are located just outside = the outside exhaust ports (only option with stock exhaust manifold). = That's with a new EGT probe (old one just replaced after tip burned = off). >>=20 >> Should also clarify:=20 >> the O2 (mixture) excursion that started this thread was recorded by = the EM3 engine monitor, which led to O2 sensor replacement. In other = words: chased a red herring. >>=20 >> Finn >>=20 >> On 9/16/2023 10:15 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >>> I did get the new LSU 4.9 sensor I recently ordered working (bad = connection to ALM-board). But EM3 still recording more and more frequent = excursions to 480 (Lambda =3D 2) from the 171 (Lambda =3D 1) normal (EC3 = numbers). >>>=20 >>> I realized that my ALM-board also has a serial output in addition to = the 0-5V analog one I've been using. >>> Every 20mS it outputs Lambda and also the LSU 4.9 O2 sensor = temperature (in deg C) (among other things). >>> I'm now reading that serial output into an Arduino Mega 2590 board = with a data logging add-on. (Also reads EM3 and Dynon D100 EFIS serial = outputs, displays trim tab positions and does other tings.) >>>=20 >>> For some reason I'm getting a rather noisy digital results (temp = varying between -273C (0) and reasonable temps. >>> When the engine is not running the ALM-board maintains the 780C temp = well (but also noisy digital signal). >>>=20 >>> Anyway, the interesting point is that I'm seeing temps as high as = 1,026C (6,600 RPM burning 11.8 GPH at 7,500 density altitude). >>>=20 >>> =46rom the Bosch LSU 4.9 spec sheet: "Exhaust gas temperature: = 930=C2=B0C (1,030 for a short time)". >>> I have mine mounted about 8 to 10" from the 135 deg turn after the = Renesis stock exhaust manifold. It appears I need to add an extension = that moves it out of the exhaust stream? >>>=20 >>> The digital Lambda output tracks the analog output well, but erratic = excursions on both [wrong!]. At this point I don't know if it's failure = to properly capture the digital signal or ALM-board, or LSU 4.9 = failing. I had replaced my original LSU 4.9 a few hours ago. >>>=20 >>> Actually, looking at todays logged analog output from a 30 min = flight, it is stable with no logged excursions (1 sec logging interval). = Analog output from ALM-board goes to EC3 mixture input. Then from EC3 to = EM3 data acquisition box and from there to EM3 display unit (and its = thumb-drive log) via serial link. So (as I write this) I think I can = rule out the LSU 4.9 and ALM-board and need to concentrate on the EM3. = Seems the last several weeks work on data logging, etc. have paid of :) >>>=20 >>> BTW I'm using a 14.2 factor to convert Lambda to ARF for 10% max = ethanol regular pump gas. >>>=20 >>> Finn >>>=20 >>> On 7/16/2023 7:11 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>>> Hi Finn >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for the reminder of the details, so it sounds like I should = power the controller ON as soon as the engine is running.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks Finn. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 16 Jul 2023, at 8:48 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Steve, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I reread the ALM board manual: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>> I guess I missed the second part :) >>>>>=20 >>>>> So to keep it simple, maybe a relay powered by the oil pressure = switch? >>>>> Or what input do you use for that for your CoPilot? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Finn >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 7/15/2023 12:55 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>>>>> Hi Finn >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Sounds like you use the same ALM board as me. All I recall is = reading that you need a genuine Bosch, but not sure if that was simply = sales talk. >>>>>> I switch mine on manually a few moments after startup as per = their instructions to avoid damaging the sensor. >>>>>> I=E2=80=99m just in the process of building a micro I call = CoPilot to manage a few things for me. One is the Wideband switch on = after start. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Steve Izett >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 15 Jul 2023, at 1:58 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = = wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I now have about 100 engine hours on my Bosch LSU 4.9 wide band = oxygen sensor with the Ecotron ALM-Board (0-5V output). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Recently I've seen the output intermittently drop to 0 volts. = So I replaced the sensor with one I bought on eBay a couple if years = ago. (0258017025 WideBand O2 Oxygen Lambda Sensor LSU 4.9 for PLX UEGO = AEM 30-2004 New). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Well, that doesn't work at all. The ALM-Board outputs zero volts = all the time. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Anyone have experience with the Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Are there versions with different pin-outs but same part number = (0258017025)? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Finn >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_AB9535FE-2282-4E4C-A9F7-6456D329A322 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Density = Altitude - 1600


On 17 = Sep 2023, at 7:53 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi = Finn

You=E2=80=99ve been = busy!

I=E2=80=99m Renesis 4 port with the = EGT=E2=80=99s perhaps in the same location, close to the ports so may = read a little hot.
On my last flight in April before pulling = her down for a major refit I got:
Highest EGT on take off - R2 = 891C (1636F) @ 7180 RPM, 28.9 in/hg, 17 Gal/Hr, 87 Lambda (I=E2=80=99m = flying a constant speed prop, therefore the = RPM=E2=80=99s)

I think I missed answering your = question recently.
My new system Micromite based (not flown = yet) parses data from the Skyview EFIS serial out and I=E2=80=99m using = the Oil Pressure data to turn on/off the ALM Board.
I use the = analog output of the ALM Board into the Skyview to display Lambda. The = output is rock solid.
I=E2=80=99ve been through my first EGT = probes and onto the 2nd = pair.

Cheers

Steve
=


On 17 Sep 2023, at = 10:36 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

More = discrepancies: highest EGT recorded in todays 30 min flight was on rotor = 2 and was 1803F =3D 894F. EGT probes are located just outside the = outside exhaust ports (only option with stock exhaust manifold). That's = with a new EGT probe (old one just replaced after tip burned = off).

Should also clarify: 
the O2 (mixture) = excursion that started this thread was recorded by the EM3 engine = monitor, which led to O2 sensor replacement. In other words: chased a = red herring.

Finn

On 9/16/2023 10:15 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
I did get the new LSU 4.9 sensor I recently = ordered working (bad connection to ALM-board). But EM3 still recording = more and more frequent excursions to 480 (Lambda =3D 2) from the 171 = (Lambda =3D 1) normal (EC3 numbers).

I realized that my ALM-board = also has a serial output in addition to the 0-5V analog one I've been = using.
Every 20mS it outputs Lambda and also the LSU 4.9 O2 sensor = temperature (in deg C) (among other things).
I'm now reading that = serial output into an Arduino Mega 2590 board with a data logging = add-on. (Also reads EM3 and Dynon D100 EFIS serial outputs, displays = trim tab positions and does other tings.)

For some reason I'm = getting a rather noisy digital results (temp varying between -273C (0) = and reasonable temps.
When the engine is not running the ALM-board = maintains the 780C temp well (but also noisy digital = signal).

Anyway, the interesting point is that I'm seeing temps = as high as 1,026C (6,600 RPM burning 11.8 GPH  at 7,500 density = altitude).

=46rom the Bosch LSU 4.9 spec sheet: "Exhaust gas = temperature: 930=C2=B0C (1,030 for a short time)".
I have mine = mounted about 8 to 10" from the 135 deg turn after the Renesis stock = exhaust manifold. It appears I need to add an extension that moves it = out of the exhaust stream?

The digital Lambda output tracks the = analog output well, but erratic excursions on both [wrong!]. At this = point I don't know if it's failure to properly capture the digital = signal or  ALM-board, or LSU 4.9 failing. I had replaced my = original LSU 4.9 a few hours ago.

Actually, looking at todays = logged analog output from a 30 min flight, it is stable with no logged = excursions (1 sec logging interval). Analog output from ALM-board goes = to EC3 mixture input. Then from EC3 to EM3 data acquisition box  = and from there to EM3 display unit (and its thumb-drive log) via serial = link.  So (as I write this) I think I can rule out the LSU 4.9 and = ALM-board and need to concentrate on the EM3. Seems the last several = weeks work on data logging, etc.  have paid of :)

BTW I'm = using a 14.2 factor to convert Lambda to ARF for 10% max ethanol regular = pump gas.

Finn

On 7/16/2023 7:11 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Finn

Thanks = for the reminder of the details, so it sounds like I should power the = controller ON as soon as the engine is = running. 

Thanks =  Finn.



On 16 Jul 2023, at 8:48 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Steve,

I = reread the ALM board manual:
<dncbiflahgfcdcla.png>= ;
<ojbfbooeieolhjmj.png>= ;

I guess I missed the second part :)

So to keep it = simple, maybe a relay powered by the oil pressure switch?
Or what = input do you use for that for your CoPilot?

Finn

On = 7/15/2023 12:55 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Finn

Sounds like you use the same ALM board as me. All I recall is reading =
that you need a genuine Bosch, but not sure if that was simply sales =
talk.
I switch mine on manually a few moments after startup as per their =
instructions to avoid damaging the sensor.
I=E2=80=99m just in the process of building a micro I call CoPilot to =
manage a few things for me. One is the Wideband switch on after start.

Cheers

Steve Izett




On 15 Jul 2023, at 1:58 =
am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I now have about 100 engine hours on my Bosch LSU 4.9 wide band oxygen =
sensor with the Ecotron ALM-Board (0-5V output).

Recently I've seen the output intermittently  drop to 0 volts. So I =
replaced the sensor with one I bought on eBay a couple if years ago. =
(0258017025 WideBand O2 Oxygen Lambda Sensor LSU 4.9 for PLX UEGO AEM =
30-2004 New).

Well, that doesn't work at all. The ALM-Board outputs zero volts all the =
time.

Anyone have experience with the Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor?

Are there versions with different pin-outs but same part number =
(0258017025)?

Finn


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