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Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:29:27 +0000 Received: by kubenode514.mail-prod1.omega.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID db365939244edf745e89353d83dfd5e9; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:29:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 21:29:22 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------13B98BAAEF1D40DF6581517D" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 220226-2, 02/26/2022), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Content-Length: 12006 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------13B98BAAEF1D40DF6581517D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From your 24 Aug 2012 post about cooling section in the spreadsheet: "Cooling mass flow is dependent on: 1. A  0.7 cp compared to pure water of 1.0 Cp - this compensates for the typical anitfreeze dilution of the specific heat of water. " Roughly weighing a 1 Gal 50/50 antifreeze jug I get maybe 7.9 pounds after subtracting 0.3 pound for the jug). Pure water about 8.3 pounds. That's about 5%. I realize it changes somewhat with temperature but nowhere near 30% ? https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html Difference between water and 50/50 at 100C: 1000/1030 or 3%. Not 30%. Difference in specific heat (whatever that is): 1.0079 / 0.88807 = 13% (for 50/50 at 100C). What am I missing? Finn On 2/26/2022 10:48 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote: > > I agree, must have got it from someplace credible - like Bill Shertz. > CP was 1.0 for pure H20 and somewhat less with antifreeze mixed in. > I had a primary pully from MazdaTrix that reduced water pump speed - > since engine was turning faster than normal in automobile, did not > want to have any cavitation.  So my water pump did turn a bit slower > than stock. > Not necessarily - note that water flow drops off if pump speed > increases into the "caviation range" > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net > " > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > Sent: 2/25/2022 10:39:43 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet > >> Thanks Ed. >> >> But 185.85 seems pretty detailed for a SWAG. >> Any chance you got it from Bill Shertz's tests (which I unfortunately >> can't find the posts about)? >> >> What determines "Cp Coolant"? >> Heat transfer efficiency from engine to water and water to rad? >> >> From measuring the rims of the e-shaft pulley (122mm) and water pump >> pulley (112mm) it looks like the Renesis water pump runs a bit slower >> (factor 1.09 compared to your 1.18). >> >> Should water flow be directly proportional to water pump RPM? >> >> Finn >> >> On 2/25/2022 10:07 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote: >>> Sorry, Finn. >>> >>> Too much water under the bridge, pretty sure I did not make it up >>> out of thin air.  I suspect I  visited some pump websites to arrive >>> at a SWAG. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net >>> " >> > >>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> > >>> Sent: 2/24/2022 2:25:56 PM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Ed's spreadsheet >>> >>>> Hi Ed, >>>> From where did you get the 13B coolant flow numbers (Pump Factor)? >>>> I want to be certain that I have adequate coolant flow. >>>> Finn >>>> --- >> >> >> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --------------13B98BAAEF1D40DF6581517D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From your 24 Aug 2012 post about cooling section in the spreadsheet:
"Cooling mass flow is dependent on:
1. A  0.7 cp compared to pure water of 1.0 Cp - this compensates for the typical anitfreeze dilution of the specific heat of water. "

Roughly weighing a 1 Gal 50/50 antifreeze jug I get maybe 7.9 pounds after subtracting 0.3 pound for the jug). Pure water about 8.3 pounds. That's about 5%.
I realize it changes somewhat with temperature but nowhere near 30% ?

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html

Difference between water and 50/50 at 100C: 1000/1030 or 3%. Not 30%.

Difference in specific heat (whatever that is): 1.0079 / 0.88807 = 13% (for 50/50 at 100C).

What am I missing?

Finn

On 2/26/2022 10:48 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote:

I agree, must have got it from someplace credible - like Bill Shertz.
CP was 1.0 for pure H20 and somewhat less with antifreeze mixed in.
I had a primary pully from MazdaTrix that reduced water pump speed - since engine was turning faster than normal in automobile, did not want to have any cavitation.  So my water pump did turn a bit slower than stock.
Not necessarily - note that water flow drops off if pump speed increases into the "caviation range"


------ Original Message ------
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: 2/25/2022 10:39:43 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet

Thanks Ed.

But 185.85 seems pretty detailed for a SWAG.
Any chance you got it from Bill Shertz's tests (which I unfortunately can't find the posts about)?

What determines "Cp Coolant"?
Heat transfer efficiency from engine to water and water to rad?

From measuring the rims of the e-shaft pulley (122mm) and water pump pulley (112mm) it looks like the Renesis water pump runs a bit slower (factor 1.09 compared to your 1.18).

Should water flow be directly proportional to water pump RPM?

Finn

On 2/25/2022 10:07 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote:
Sorry, Finn.

Too much water under the bridge, pretty sure I did not make it up out of thin air.  I suspect I  visited some pump websites to arrive at a SWAG.

Ed

------ Original Message ------
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: 2/24/2022 2:25:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ed's spreadsheet

Hi Ed,
 
From where did you get the 13B coolant flow numbers (Pump Factor)?
 
I want to be certain that I have adequate coolant flow.
 
Finn
 
 
---


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