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[220.235.100.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d13-20020a17090ae28d00b001bbb040d038sm5382941pjz.40.2022.02.20.15.48.13 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:48:14 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_61429559-AFCB-414D-9059-4AB10CA7C207" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Coolant flow sensors Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:48:11 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) --Apple-Mail=_61429559-AFCB-414D-9059-4AB10CA7C207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Finn I smiled reading your question about =E2=80=98is that 10 or 20 inches'. = I remember thinking exactly the same thing! I think the difference between the two levels is the correct pressure. = But I=E2=80=99m working with a pentium#1 cluster of neutrons! All the best with the experimenting. I found a significant fault in my experimenting on Saturday. I=E2=80=99ve been fine tuning the H2O diffuser shape using the = differential transducers across the face.=20 Then made new exits for the cowl and flight tested. The temps were = fantastic! Peaked at 90C. Then realised that I had some flights back disconnected the front gear = door closing mechanism!=20 I=E2=80=99ve flown the last few test flights thinking the gear door was = closed when it was open. I reconnected it and did a flight test. The hottest day I had flown - = OAT of ~37C. Both Oil and H2O temps quickly hit 110C. On reviewing the log data after the flight, delta pressures across the = H2O rad plummeted to less than half compared with the same airspeed and = when I unknowingly had the front gear door open. Ive got a real problem with my exit air! So reviewing he cowl exits = again. In relation to EC2 MCT programming. Ive done some work and on the last = flight it was so much better and hands off. I did play with the MCT entries in those addresses used at startup and = early idle while warming up. Addresses 0-31 I added 30 points of enrichment. The result was that it started more = quickly and idled better. Good outcome. Cheers Steve Izett > On 21 Feb 2022, at 1:34 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >=20 > Finally got around to making coolant flow "sensors". (Used existing = 3/4" cu pipe with wells for temperature sensors. Maybe a bad idea = because of the restriction may not make it true 0.75" ID.) >=20 > Trying to calibrate pressure sensors. > Have a hose with water. Connect to vacuum and pressure ports of sensor = when water is level. When I raise one end of the hose to get a 20" = difference between the two water levels, is that 10" or 20" H2O? >=20 > Yesterday I filled a 5 gal bucket through the sensors, timing it to 9 = gal/min. Pressure readout indicated what I had previously gotten as = 35.25" H2O. > Something is obviously wrong. Perhaps the 35.25" H2O was really half = of that? >=20 > Moving on. Trying to make a formula to convert inH2O to Gal/min. > hw (in H2O) =3D 0.186 (vfpm / 60)2=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD where vfpm =3D = velocity (ft/min). > Vfpm =3D 60 * Sqrt(Hw / 0.186) > 231 cuIn / gallon. > Area of 3/4" pipe: 0.44 sq in. > 231/0.44 =3D 525" or 44 feet/min for 1 Gal/min flow. > So gal/min =3D 60 * Sqrt(Hw / 0.186) / 44 > 60 * Sqrt(20" / 0.186) / 44 ~ 13.6 gal/min. Close to Steve's 16 = gal/min through 0.8" pipe. >=20 > Anyone seeing a mistake here? >=20 > Need to repeat my filling 5 gal bucket through sensors test, but need = to get my pressure sensor calibration right first. >=20 > Finn >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 8/21/2021 12:15 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu = wrote: >> Finn, >>=20 >> 20" of water column corresponded to 16 gal/min through a 0.8" dia = tube.=EF=BF=BD Coolant delta T is based on measurements in my plane. = Typically, I see about 10 deg F delta T at a cruise power setting. >>=20 >> If I remember correctly, Bill Shertz made water pump flow rate = measurements with a system he set up for this purpose. >>=20 >> Steve Boese=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft = on behalf of Finn Lassen = finn.lassen@verizon.net = = >> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 6:04 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft = >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant flow sensors >> =EF=BF=BD >> Thank you Steve. Exactly what I need. I can make those. >>=20 >> What were the approximate pressures? >>=20 >> On a related note, what is the 15F coolant temp deltas you mention = based on?=20 >> 35 gpm coolant flow cooling 180 HP? >>=20 >> I keep wondering where the 35 gpm comes from. >>=20 >> Mainly by reducing oil cooler exit air area, I'm now down to 200F = @130 mph @ about 4,000' density altitude and 70F OAT. Can climb at full = power to about 1,500' on a 85F day (keeping speed at 110-120 mph). Only = small incremental improvements so far.. Looking for that magic change = that will lower that to 180F. >>=20 >> After working with air flow, I think I'll now circle back to coolant = flow. Coolant delta over right rad still higher than left rad. Am = thinking of hooking up a garden hose to rad inputs and see how quickly 5 = gal buckets will fill up from each rad output But 35 gpm is a lot more = than a garde >> n hose can supply? >>=20 >> But flow sensors should give better real world results.. >>=20 >> Finn >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = >=20 >=20 > = = Virus-free. www.avast.com = = -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = --Apple-Mail=_61429559-AFCB-414D-9059-4AB10CA7C207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Finn

I smiled = reading your question about =E2=80=98is that 10 or 20 inches'. I = remember thinking exactly the same thing!
I think = the difference between the two levels is the correct pressure. But I=E2=80= =99m working with a pentium#1 cluster of neutrons!
All the best with the experimenting.

I found a significant fault in my = experimenting on Saturday.
I=E2=80=99ve been fine = tuning the H2O diffuser shape using the differential transducers across = the face. 
Then made new exits for the cowl = and flight tested. The temps were fantastic! Peaked at 90C.
Then realised that I had some flights back disconnected the = front gear door closing mechanism! 
I=E2=80=99ve= flown the last few test flights thinking the gear door was closed when = it was open.
I reconnected it and did a flight = test. The hottest day I had flown - OAT of ~37C.
Both= Oil and H2O temps quickly hit 110C.
On reviewing = the log data after the flight, delta pressures across the H2O rad = plummeted to less than half compared with the same airspeed and when I = unknowingly had the front gear door open.
Ive got a = real problem with my exit air! So reviewing he cowl exits = again.

In = relation to EC2 MCT programming. Ive done some work and on the last = flight it was so much better and hands off.
I did = play with the MCT entries in those addresses used at startup and early = idle while warming up. Addresses 0-31
I added 30 = points of enrichment. The result was that it started more quickly and = idled better. Good outcome.

Cheers

Steve Izett



On 21 Feb 2022, at 1:34 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Finally got around to making coolant flow = "sensors". (Used existing 3/4" cu pipe with wells for temperature = sensors. Maybe a bad idea because of the restriction may not make it = true 0.75" ID.)

Trying to calibrate = pressure sensors.
Have a hose with water. Connect to = vacuum and pressure ports of sensor when water is level. When I raise = one end of the hose to get a 20" difference between the two water = levels, is that 10" or 20" H2O?

Yesterday I = filled a 5 gal bucket through the sensors, timing it to 9 gal/min. = Pressure readout indicated what I had previously gotten as 35.25" = H2O.
Something is obviously wrong. Perhaps the 35.25" H2O = was really half of that?

Moving on. Trying = to make a formula to convert inH2O to Gal/min.
hw (in = H2O) =3D 0.186 (vfpm / = 60)2=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD where vfpm =3D= velocity (ft/min).
Vfpm =3D 60 * Sqrt(Hw / 0.186)
231 cuIn / gallon.
Area of 3/4" pipe: 0.44 sq = in.
231/0.44 =3D 525" or 44 feet/min for 1 Gal/min = flow.
So gal/min =3D 60 * Sqrt(Hw / 0.186) / 44
60 * Sqrt(20" / 0.186) / 44 ~ 13.6 gal/min. Close to Steve's = 16 gal/min through 0.8" pipe.

Anyone seeing = a mistake here?

Need to repeat my filling 5 = gal bucket through sensors test, but need to get my pressure sensor = calibration right first.

Finn



On 8/21/2021 = 12:15 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote:
Finn,

20" of water column corresponded to 16 gal/min through = a 0.8" dia tube.=EF=BF=BD Coolant delta T is based on measurements in my = plane. Typically, I see about 10 deg F delta T at a cruise power = setting.

If I remember correctly, Bill Shertz made water pump = flow rate measurements with a system he set up for this = purpose.

Steve Boese=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t> on behalf of = Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net<flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 = 6:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant = flow sensors
=EF=BF=BD
Thank you Steve. Exactly what I need. I can = make those.

What were the approximate = pressures?

On a related note, what is the = 15F coolant temp deltas you mention based on? 
35 gpm = coolant flow cooling 180 HP?

I keep = wondering where the 35 gpm comes from.

Mainly= by reducing oil cooler exit air area, I'm now down to 200F @130 mph @ = about 4,000' density altitude and 70F OAT. Can climb at full power to = about 1,500' on a 85F day (keeping speed at 110-120 mph). Only small = incremental improvements so far.. Looking for that magic change that = will lower that to 180F.

After working with = air flow, I think I'll now circle back to coolant flow. Coolant delta = over right rad still higher than left rad. Am thinking of hooking up a = garden hose to rad inputs and see how quickly 5 gal buckets will fill up = from each rad output But 35 gpm is a lot more than a garde
n= hose can supply?

But flow sensors should = give better real world results..

Finn




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