X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=EuKsUhUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=LooQsbCaLIKE2avGtE29Sg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=EaYkU1pGYGAgPe7S8dQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=sjsO8bRUWILV_QG2:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f180.google.com ([209.85.215.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 666596 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:07:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.180; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f180.google.com with SMTP id s15so7422pgc.8 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:07:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=AoooZYuhTSX8jW9/aqC/8wsPW1NQpkd/DpUmBNhi6hQ=; b=j6jpZ77+BYvCjKc9g4BA/oHFxVyGgV5cQMJpY/J0nsyA5qBItZ+DTC2xGXkVAHUNak 1yOVUqGAkvX50I1imyykS5O/lXaHwI/v5oBIYM6rBDnWPrXmxNngLLrP6DTjxSEiXZ+F SCiImKRRZFhaTso5L30+NsE0xeL/PeX23DAfMj6JK3E4SMuZiE5VE/IQFMLp8E40uJbL wugNpaifVRyEosi+xu42N8J2FaWb4Ks/81Q989xlYEKQQn03j26kpGkSKBBI1um3qe3T 3488Fa/l8OXTxKscdxjXl8XQrADsrUy7G/s2ByxnHEmcslaQsvisX3hmP/TfVrSdCO63 wfVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=AoooZYuhTSX8jW9/aqC/8wsPW1NQpkd/DpUmBNhi6hQ=; b=GJKA4DAQDTYMf36BUQrQlU6eNVCgN4/jAxhY+wJJNVzE36d3P2WunSHGVdwSx2Tqu1 /Ch+nHT1BUqbS6/dH3PfJVVP2XiUYKM//2HU4QQVmzVsdt17yHa7GdQvZ8TDRyydoB4o 8D3QvMEKUX8vFgip0zVRchvQOOVG/AkaKoUEUKrbNl+eXWsATmaovsSZEja06BDFd7Ch 5gkmf/mVWeh8Gpx7QSN/7Ns8TO8aw/0q5i0Xl+Ot7491uZiGjRd8t8lfCtmRJFHef7Te l0FITOxe3P4BVrkwg14AyQ38zuVfVQySGwMxidUGmfy9DpevDOl5FgVp/zlu8hjWhiNR +/NA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5311Qn6a553iUZC53eg/efFzsnzcS9yAhF3sznDfWVt5kkRxr8PC 5UIG+mrPgmC432TtiGg51/3+Sm8Z02U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxKblJQIb1DU2ZmI33O9LxdrgTtz8xR82Y88y8VbYWsON1jW+aKKP6/3TE3f086vdkvf3BxZg== X-Received: by 2002:a62:8303:: with SMTP id h3mr627026pfe.169.1597961249829; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o192sm59814pfg.81.2020.08.20.15.07.28 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:07:29 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 08:07:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01d6773e$4b55cc00$e2016400$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01D67792.1D02ED70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFSpVImuG+7FI13M6vWZ8cUxaHCUapJL/FA Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D67792.1D02ED70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, I can relate to all you say having had the same problems = with hydraulics. However although I should know better than question = your advice,--- Is a 5/8 hole enough? The standard pipe is 1.3/8 = inch which makes the 5/8 only about =C2=BC size without doing the actual = maths?? I can put a restrictor on the outlet to the engine which will = be the ideal spot to put the Turbo return water pipe in as there will be = a =E2=80=9Csuction=E2=80=9D at that spot. Lynn mate you worry me, but I = have to bow to your experience, Thanks to all again, Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction =20 -Cool the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You = want the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as = to avoid boiling coolant. Boiling point of coolant is a function of = pressure and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for = racing up to 30 PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant = temps and have the engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached = little cooling fins around the back of the plug holes in the rotor = housing. Others fly cut fins on a mill. But that just shows you that the = biggest heat load is around the plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes = right between the plugs for even better heat control. Do not change the = direction of the coolant flow, in my opinion. =20 In 5th grade we learned that fluids are not compressible. True, but = coolant contains bits of air in bubbles that we cannot remove. So the = coolant appears to be compressible just like air. So, when we spin up = the pump it compresses to some extent the coolant it is pushing through = the system. So, in a closed system that means that the coolant on the = suction side of the pump will drop to a lower pressure than that on the = pressure side. But low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavitation). Notice the = lower radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter than the upper = (Pressure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact same situation. = It is then a universal problem with cooling engines. =20 I use a 5/8" restricter in the at the top water outlet to the radiator = to keep that hole as the primary limit to flow rather than have the = radiator or engine internals be the primary limit. This makes the engine = internals operate at the highest pressure in the system. And reduces the = pressure drop in front of the pump. At first I just replaced the stock = thermostat with a restricter but later I welded the restricter onto the = water outlet. Many have told me that the wide open system will work better, but = after 30 years of racing with no cooling problems.........I disagree.=20 =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 In a message dated 8/20/2020 4:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net = writes:=20 =20 Hi Neil. =20 Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues: 1. Energy transfer down due to delta T being lower, increasing the = danger of nucleate boiling near the plugs 2. Creating a higher differential between the hot and cold sides of the = engine producing increased expansion differences across the engine. =20 Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My = guess is that they don=E2=80=99t. If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help with the physical layout to = suck the water through rather than push it through? =20 Cheers =20 Steve Izett =20 > On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: >=20 > Gents, > Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump. = The simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard pump. I do = understand the hot side and the colder side but with the water being = changes every 1 - 2 seconds, does this really matter? > Thoughts? > Neil. =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D67792.1D02ED70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lynn,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I can relate to all you say having had = the same problems with hydraulics.=C2=A0 However although I should know = better than question your advice,---=C2=A0 Is a =C2=A05/8 =C2=A0hole = enough?=C2=A0 The standard pipe is 1.3/8 inch which makes the 5/8 only = about =C2=BC size without doing the actual maths??=C2=A0 I can put a = restrictor on the outlet to the engine which will be the ideal spot to = put the Turbo return water pipe in as there will be a = =E2=80=9Csuction=E2=80=9D at that spot.=C2=A0 Lynn mate you worry me, = but I have to bow to your experience,

Thanks to all again,=C2=A0 = Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, August = 20, 2020 11:49 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Water direction

 

-Co= ol the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You = want the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as = to avoid boiling coolant.  Boiling point of coolant is a function = of pressure and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for = racing up to 30 PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant = temps and have the engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached = little cooling fins around the back of the plug holes in the rotor = housing. Others fly cut fins on a mill. But that just shows you that the = biggest heat load is around the plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes = right between the plugs for even better heat control. Do not change the = direction of the coolant flow, in my = opinion.

 

In = 5th grade we learned that fluids are not compressible. True, but coolant = contains bits of air in bubbles that we cannot remove. So the coolant = appears to be compressible just like air. So, when we spin up the pump = it compresses to some extent the coolant it is pushing through the = system.  So, in a closed system that means that the coolant on the = suction side of the pump will drop to a lower pressure than that on the = pressure side.

But= low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavitation). Notice the = lower radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter than the upper = (Pressure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact same situation. = It is then a universal problem with cooling = engines.

 

I = use a 5/8" restricter in the at the top water outlet to the = radiator to keep that hole as the primary limit to flow rather than have = the radiator or engine internals be the primary limit. This makes the = engine internals operate at the highest pressure in the system. And = reduces the pressure drop in front of the pump. At first I just replaced = the stock thermostat with a restricter but later I welded the restricter = onto the water outlet.

&nb= sp; Many have told me that the wide open system will work better, but = after 30 years of racing with no cooling problems.........I = disagree. 

 

Lyn= n E. Hanover

 

In a message = dated 8/20/2020 4:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

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