X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=aM2ykv1m c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ZVoeWWDHYCxB0dkMqd2qMg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=cSA4PNNTyyVTY4KJO60A:9 a=geRnbAh5ZuyV7uwt:21 a=mupSaTQxOiy2R9FB:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=UtHMaqfTF6VP8rBj:21 a=8PNE9Ba98YYbz2VT:21 a=CUYZDdaUpmr4D3nj:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from sonic316-12.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.69.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTP id 10030988 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:46:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.69.36; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1503265557; bh=SEI/Sob/4V7qt7fWaFo2I83/NswQ2q463ThmszHD8r4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=TD9GSAF25wKA/oq+5zA5lPqavaFekkRabUc/ViIXNzkBfN5wXq9Xhx5NK7xumX87qxBYr83nA+KAptGJQ9ksK4xrqEte54oujLQxcWr7yETQXiZ331Krt4EL8zWdy2pSATb6ruimzFbP3O3hov7lmu7tm0Rt+sKB2aT3VfYDK+Q= X-YMail-OSG: ezl4xLUVM1mPPBq3B.004SF3P8Mf8ueguSCxkN.cecv8.a31RzyoJQg53Dk4Vk1 GfYzsLV2532g47O4QydRGMseLF0cKGBk3CGkqzcUeY0zwJ9zmSTduTbJArCi9Y74ecmveYBnzJIk UuVI5OTg3ajppbd.mYp_uHSrSe1JrlN99RmccCQRm.ZZCA3qeC8RxaY2MCjpE1G0VtnGq78ey4YH L1PxcnHO0KI1nxYuVvhlsf5JWDbSIOVEXHfIGxaVyeAAUFNdgrCTm9njxt5xBJWFr95UQ7quI339 UC8GlFOVHQ4_TfcDsHqd3cCBoZQAaIar4OUDLy8cSmY0bIAVxpv49fMTN6ViRloFq6XxCAD8_mQy 9IA6d52mNMnUg8ecy_.sxNrXEM2yp4rrxwgoegsdG0YSw0CU69fYCjlL7BkTanYubqBHZCkUV9.U QeT.PZQTylRhGD8t7k8L7ZGy27W9UCa78YspVHAcifdwhv4uiT2olEMbAiuswu8vx7hFXH2kSsj8 k6L92JWA- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 21:45:57 +0000 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 21:45:52 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <786470790.1677531.1503265553006@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1677530_187881657.1503265553004" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10391 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/54.0 Content-Length: 11814 ------=_Part_1677530_187881657.1503265553004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a point to highlight what Todd was saying about exit ducting. On the Dyke Delta I built, I had a water cooler under the cowl.=C2=A0 The o= ther water cooler and oil cooler were buried in the strakes.=C2=A0 The air = exited the cooler under the cowl close to the firewall, and was supposed to= go down and out the bottom.=C2=A0 It didn't do that. What it did was set up a horizontal whirlwind inside the cowl.=C2=A0 The ai= r hit the firewall and then spun around clockwise.=C2=A0 I discovered what = was happening during the investigation of why some hoses were melting.=C2= =A0 I constructed a crude dam to force the air out the cowl exit, and saw a= significant drop in temps. All that is to say that the airflow INSIDE the cowl is as important as the = flow outside. Today, I would tuft the engine with pieces of yarn on hoses, = wires, and engine mount tubes.=C2=A0 I have a tiny camera with a 15ft cord = that turns my phone into a video surveillance monitor.=C2=A0 I'd stick it i= n various places under the cowl and see how the air flows with the engine r= unning. =20 On Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:22 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote: =20 I didn't crunch any numbers in my decision to use this Laminova heat excha= nger, I only knew that in climb and level flight I had different cooling be= tween oil & water and figured I could balance it out with this heat exchang= er at a small price in weight. It certainly doesn't increase the cooling of= the system as a whole.=C2=A0It should be pointed out that these are not co= olers, only heat exchangers. So if a oil/water cooling system doesn't have = adequate cooling to begin with, then this will do nothing to address that.I= n my case I found that I could climb from 2000' ASL (field) to 10000' ASL i= n 3 minutes before my coolant temps hit redline, but I still had plenty of = room on my oil temps. In level flight my coolant temps would drop but my oi= l temps would slowly increase to redline. So I figured this would help me b= orrow from Peter to pay Paul. It still didn't address cooling shortfalls pr= operly.=C2=A0 I believe the biggest culprit in this was the shape and posit= ion of my oil cooler inlet which was form over function (hey, it looked goo= d).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Now I have made a lot of other changes which hopefully shou= ld address improper cooling airflow. As well as reshaping the oil cooler in= let duct I also did outlet ducting for the oil cooler, intercooler and righ= t coolant radiator. I did not build a outlet duct from the left radiator du= e to it's close proximity to the turbo exhaust pipe. This interfered with t= he space required for a proper exit duct and I figured it probably would be= a good idea to have some airflow over the turbo. Previously I had only duc= ted my inlets and left the air to find it's own way out of the cowl through= what I believed were adequate sized exits. Ed Anderson spent a lot of time= researching cooling air flows and finally was able to beat it into me that= exit ducting is every bit as important as inlet ducting.=C2=A0 The other c= hange I made which I hope will have a significant effect is I bought a new = set of deep pitch blades for my IVO prop. I also cut it down from 76" to 70= ". This should give me a higher cruise speed with the accompanying increase= in cooling airflow with the same RPM.So with all these changes it's unknow= n if this Laminova cooler will have any benefit but I'm certainly not going= to remove it as it it's only cost at this point is a few pounds which if I= need to get rid of that I'll just start jogging again... not a bad idea an= yways :-) On Sun, Aug 20, 2017, 09:46 Thomas Mann, wrot= e: As a side note to these observations there is something to be said about ov= ercooling the engine oil. (i.e. cooling the oil too much at higher altitude= s or in cold conditions.)An oil-to-coolant system help to moderate that sce= nario. T Mann Sent from Windows Mail | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | =20 ------=_Part_1677530_187881657.1503265553004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just a point= to highlight what Todd was saying about exit ducting.

On the Dyke Delta I built, I had a water cooler under= the cowl.  The other water cooler and oil cooler were buried in the s= trakes.  The air exited the cooler under the cowl close to the firewal= l, and was supposed to go down and out the bottom.  It didn't do that.=

What it did was set up a horizo= ntal whirlwind inside the cowl.  The air hit the firewall and then spu= n around clockwise.  I discovered what was happening during the invest= igation of why some hoses were melting.  I constructed a crude dam to = force the air out the cowl exit, and saw a significant drop in temps.

All that is to say that the airflo= w INSIDE the cowl is as important as the flow outside. Today, I would tuft = the engine with pieces of yarn on hoses, wires, and engine mount tubes.&nbs= p; I have a tiny camera with a 15ft cord that turns my phone into a video s= urveillance monitor.  I'd stick it in various places under the cowl an= d see how the air flows with the engine running.



On Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:22 PM, T= odd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I didn't crunch any numbers in my decision to use th= is Laminova heat exchanger, I only knew that in climb and level flight I ha= d different cooling between oil & water and figured I could balance it = out with this heat exchanger at a small price in weight. It certainly doesn= 't increase the cooling of the system as a whole.
&nb= sp;It should be pointed out that these are not coolers, only heat exchanger= s. So if a oil/water cooling system doesn't have adequate cooling to begin = with, then this will do nothing to address that.
In my case I fou= nd that I could climb from 2000' ASL (field) to 10000' ASL in 3 minutes bef= ore my coolant temps hit redline, but I still had plenty of room on my oil = temps. In level flight my coolant temps would drop but my oil temps would s= lowly increase to redline. So I figured this would help me borrow from Pete= r to pay Paul. It still didn't address cooling shortfalls properly.
  I believe the biggest culprit in this was the shape and position = of my oil cooler inlet which was form over function (hey, it looked good).<= /div>
   Now I have made a lot of other changes which hopeful= ly should address improper cooling airflow. As well as reshaping the oil co= oler inlet duct I also did outlet ducting for the oil cooler, intercooler a= nd right coolant radiator. I did not build a outlet duct from the left radi= ator due to it's close proximity to the turbo exhaust pipe. This interfered= with the space required for a proper exit duct and I figured it probably w= ould be a good idea to have some airflow over the turbo. Previously I had o= nly ducted my inlets and left the air to find it's own way out of the cowl = through what I believed were adequate sized exits. Ed Anderson spent a lot = of time researching cooling air flows and finally was able to beat it into = me that exit ducting is every bit as important as inlet ducting.
=   The other change I made which I hope will have a significant effect = is I bought a new set of deep pitch blades for my IVO prop. I also cut it d= own from 76" to 70". This should give me a higher cruise speed with the acc= ompanying increase in cooling airflow with the same RPM.
So with = all these changes it's unknown if this Laminova cooler will have any benefi= t but I'm certainly not going to remove it as it it's only cost at this poi= nt is a few pounds which if I need to get rid of that I'll just start joggi= ng again... not a bad idea anyways :-)

On Sun, Aug 20= , 2017, 09:46 Thomas Mann, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
A= s a side note to these observations there is something to be said about ove= rcooling the engine oil. (i.e. cooling the oil too much at higher altitudes= or in cold conditions.)
An oil-to-cool= ant system help to moderate that scenario.

T Mann

Sent from Windows Mail


=09 =09=09 =09
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