X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=aM2ykv1m c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=MdAychA0CrWO/o4Qx2z4bg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=EyXb3LpRLHTnY--NQUAA:9 a=gz9wZvwAelsaOVqI:21 a=cwh6qJtcl4s4maCd:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=cSA4PNNTyyVTY4KJO60A:9 a=g1eMt17JY1AXyQB2:21 a=GAUqzCoIlkDHvpbS:21 a=Ep1DzobVzPxZPX4L:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Todd Bartrim" Received: from mail-wr0-f182.google.com ([209.85.128.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10030851 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:40:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.128.182; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-wr0-f182.google.com with SMTP id f8so46901720wrf.3 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:40:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kcuibbdMw4X4aZZn5ln66MqWXrWygY6UPAxP7tMlGUQ=; b=aYggPJVoDCSQvvY0d9tUMsRJwNj8Q9aKepWUDezW673k5fYBMq/grrmzGUSW3RWG9M mHHLewsZdi8wxi+KSZsljEJPYEsLhUfc4Cl1QU/1UJDgPPY4i2vCB9WM2x7/PaZQ6BRf COl8oNq2OxPE9aAQZnI+zp7utBBYwIodBpu0XNQ2T79xehFkdQZZ801kCCo1/f8wCIF9 yoChj/wye336rOaRNYifcW3pWVWFqdMI+Ms+xMQl7KhNOLi2RnlB8W9CL1CDKG3yb34X hHMPoAQp3l3HCDO5RpOICTEueKjEXBGwaARG0IvnmJF4Jht7bRjNv2yosvKXMSz2iBx7 BsPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=kcuibbdMw4X4aZZn5ln66MqWXrWygY6UPAxP7tMlGUQ=; b=c1o9XxnzX4Wwus8axrzKcVoPq+d6vXIHrNsMyX3lcl4BUKKSk6DlA7eOe2gGfBWfnL 73pM8o/bGcpWjcRoJpFLC60pwMr3x0WiX5wLmpFL/cUgHYaL9LvLl4MdKkAfp2VN87Zi IM/GxmMPZlonb4xh4HthOR6E1tHqWppBb9wPOnk+ZKw91hKIgM7S3Pd0+RqX1qRkxf3H /iMsVMe2yz3IRmAepdyVzuEKXCURFe/Hpe06GJBd9JBd8sFXmjd3EVAs1h5W+W4Ipp7g K6bMu6xqWQ6ThAPVu8Z/1fTpCbFD4Q5fwgHXaW8bh10t6diobGgDtm41v8uPDitn62lC rSdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gOkHPAwe6uQl3wI3MDCXXSqIBZL4Y40VY9GBjTQCy3GqJhrEOM Q0fZ59Vc6wSv1wTCg7F7QRUZc8xnbA== X-Received: by 10.80.192.90 with SMTP id u26mr1247348edd.155.1503261620552; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:40:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.169.134 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:40:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolers To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cc624e5c92a0557355e66" --94eb2c1cc624e5c92a0557355e66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I should also mention for the benefit of those that haven't been around long enough to remember all the discussion around this, but I'm using an electric water pump (actually I'm using 2 of them) along with an electronic controller. So with regards to the over-cooling concerns with the oil, if I find myself in this situation (possible in winter flying) the controller will slow the pump speed to keep the heat up. I actually had experience where during winter flying as I would begin a long descent, the controller would cut back the pump speed to minimum in an effort to maintain engine temps which resulted in no cabin heat and damn, did it get cold fast! Really cold! And hard to put a jacket on in there. So I added a really small electric boost pump in the heater line which will maintain cabin heat. Todd... winter is coming! Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> Todd Bartrim On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote: > I didn't crunch any numbers in my decision to use this Laminova heat > exchanger, I only knew that in climb and level flight I had different > cooling between oil & water and figured I could balance it out with this > heat exchanger at a small price in weight. It certainly doesn't increase > the cooling of the system as a whole. > > It should be pointed out that these are not coolers, only heat > exchangers. So if a oil/water cooling system doesn't have adequate cooling > to begin with, then this will do nothing to address that. > > In my case I found that I could climb from 2000' ASL (field) to 10000' ASL > in 3 minutes before my coolant temps hit redline, but I still had plenty of > room on my oil temps. In level flight my coolant temps would drop but my > oil temps would slowly increase to redline. So I figured this would help me > borrow from Peter to pay Paul. It still didn't address cooling shortfalls > properly. > > I believe the biggest culprit in this was the shape and position of my > oil cooler inlet which was form over function (hey, it looked good). > > Now I have made a lot of other changes which hopefully should address > improper cooling airflow. As well as reshaping the oil cooler inlet duct I > also did outlet ducting for the oil cooler, intercooler and right coolant > radiator. I did not build a outlet duct from the left radiator due to it's > close proximity to the turbo exhaust pipe. This interfered with the space > required for a proper exit duct and I figured it probably would be a good > idea to have some airflow over the turbo. Previously I had only ducted my > inlets and left the air to find it's own way out of the cowl through what I > believed were adequate sized exits. Ed Anderson spent a lot of time > researching cooling air flows and finally was able to beat it into me that > exit ducting is every bit as important as inlet ducting. > > The other change I made which I hope will have a significant effect is I > bought a new set of deep pitch blades for my IVO prop. I also cut it down > from 76" to 70". This should give me a higher cruise speed with the > accompanying increase in cooling airflow with the same RPM. > > So with all these changes it's unknown if this Laminova cooler will have > any benefit but I'm certainly not going to remove it as it it's only cost > at this point is a few pounds which if I need to get rid of that I'll just > start jogging again... not a bad idea anyways :-) > > On Sun, Aug 20, 2017, 09:46 Thomas Mann, > wrote: > >> As a side note to these observations there is something to be said about >> overcooling the engine oil. (i.e. cooling the oil too much at higher >> altitudes or in cold conditions.) >> An oil-to-coolant system help to moderate that scenario. >> >> T Mann >> >> Sent from Windows Mail >> >> >> > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-285349707254525515_m_7889404654356319861_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --94eb2c1cc624e5c92a0557355e66 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I should also mention for the benefit of those that haven&= #39;t been around long enough to remember all the discussion around this, b= ut I'm using an electric water pump (actually I'm using 2 of them) = along with an electronic controller.
=C2=A0 So with regards to the over= -cooling concerns with the oil, if I find myself in this situation (possibl= e in winter flying) the controller will slow the pump speed to keep the hea= t up.
=C2=A0 I actually had experience where during winter flying= as I would begin a long descent, the controller would cut back the pump sp= eed to minimum in an effort to maintain engine temps which resulted in no c= abin heat and damn, did it get cold fast! Really cold! And hard to put a ja= cket on in there. So I added a really small electric boost pump in the heat= er line which will maintain cabin heat.

Todd... = =C2=A0 winter is coming!

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

Todd Bartrim

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Todd Bartri= m <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I didn't crunch any numbers in my decision to use t= his Laminova heat exchanger, I only knew that in climb and level flight I h= ad different cooling between oil & water and figured I could balance it= out with this heat exchanger at a small price in weight. It certainly does= n't increase the cooling of the system as a whole.

= =C2=A0It should be pointed out that these are not coolers, only heat exchan= gers. So if a oil/water cooling system doesn't have adequate cooling to= begin with, then this will do nothing to address that.

In my case I = found that I could climb from 2000' ASL (field) to 10000' ASL in 3 = minutes before my coolant temps hit redline, but I still had plenty of room= on my oil temps. In level flight my coolant temps would drop but my oil te= mps would slowly increase to redline. So I figured this would help me borro= w from Peter to pay Paul. It still didn't address cooling shortfalls pr= operly.

=C2=A0 I believe the biggest culprit in this was the shape an= d position of my oil cooler inlet which was form over function (hey, it loo= ked good).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Now I have made a lot of other changes which = hopefully should address improper cooling airflow. As well as reshaping the= oil cooler inlet duct I also did outlet ducting for the oil cooler, interc= ooler and right coolant radiator. I did not build a outlet duct from the le= ft radiator due to it's close proximity to the turbo exhaust pipe. This= interfered with the space required for a proper exit duct and I figured it= probably would be a good idea to have some airflow over the turbo. Previou= sly I had only ducted my inlets and left the air to find it's own way o= ut of the cowl through what I believed were adequate sized exits. Ed Anders= on spent a lot of time researching cooling air flows and finally was able t= o beat it into me that exit ducting is every bit as important as inlet duct= ing.

=C2=A0 The other change I made which I hope will have a signific= ant effect is I bought a new set of deep pitch blades for my IVO prop. I al= so cut it down from 76" to 70". This should give me a higher crui= se speed with the accompanying increase in cooling airflow with the same RP= M.

So with all these changes it's unknown if this Laminova cooler= will have any benefit but I'm certainly not going to remove it as it i= t's only cost at this point is a few pounds which if I need to get rid = of that I'll just start jogging again... not a bad idea anyways :-)


On Sun, Aug 20, 2017, 09:46= Thomas Mann, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
As a side note to these observations there is something= to be said about overcooling the engine oil. (i.e. cooling the oil too muc= h at higher altitudes or in cold conditions.)
An oil-to-coolant system help to moderate that scenario.

T Mann

<= div style=3D"font-size:12pt">Sent from Windows Mail



3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

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