X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=aM2ykv1m c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=FiysPuC7j0KWWPdSEIJ08g==:117 a=SdZcyNrguLD1JVUj4BJM8A==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=BaKdtXMH_38A:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nuE5wpejAAAA:20 a=-5LUZhgxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=gihdf0uKu3TFc05QFOsA:9 a=D7bwd6MWx2uYe0v-:21 a=6dD1OU91kpmcihjO:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=HPIAOejwdAwA:10 a=Y2jnBaDky46V8O7usqkA:9 a=4juBEoHBmB_L7-UI:21 a=Ev06jXz9PSe7_gJU:21 a=GtX0sAoor7b7nlqk:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=WutpEK6nTlQjJys0BURe:22 From: "Bill Schertz" Received: from mail-it0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10030243 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 12:39:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=wschertz343@gmail.com Received: by mail-it0-f52.google.com with SMTP id 76so23905524ith.0 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:mime-version :importance; bh=xgFVJMGoyT9aECwMWWG699RykCrHSS3CfLKzStZyqBI=; b=mK2fbuVej7riXbvvcitL+8Itg13qrQM7h4TnpAuTq0AFFlm4wTT2MXN86g9ZeI3Ap3 Los7uzyVFYNaPlV6L0Lc6E3Mf1YjWkmMk5ai/hRHjC2wyFYsO7cnxHXX5qASytLTMAsd XUY3Y494COSU/xHXCUmHE4aKrO3scMIR+nXjR3PhBtl8fUSlkE7pIoocGY//5dq0YiUg ELvv5zoceoo7lUGdGmRjLw/EL7zWUQlyO34m0ncwdK9fOZvGsf06Gzp2NTnoyLLCQnnN e1zaLfZIAQXdNLQB+cJRoHB/KmHOg3+amrSVg3oLuB7wQeBt9D+spUOBqA+1Okkl6zHW KllA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:from:to:references:in-reply-to :subject:date:mime-version:importance; bh=xgFVJMGoyT9aECwMWWG699RykCrHSS3CfLKzStZyqBI=; b=aFcGdfC9Cmx75Fo+W8k1OTlolUIa0COxSCiE9BGSBCFeHX28fHxgvtsqQ44725y1jH LigTHbfyqNFx+R5DAEYA4g9fEm7yVhiePuDB4uX/5FGVyApvtXK6FtiBJ+ei3pVpuRTI Co14CnC1MLnW3rvokavlvw/QOaU78DfA6/VAwqInwEawNVBtB1JVs8E0oXrBVOZiwOKG C77B3sTBFreskvs4Kzn1CsP8Ystc9qwgQb1mdoSVXPMi6ecj3PHDFQjOo+cP7MDEPusZ jwajo2ZhZzFee3E9Ccdv+gtUfprgHCiC+C8v7F0E6EWacP39XBg+uEDs0yhLQc0r7hNa tCWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5ijvzzEUFhusfBiQoCrq4zbNXLZVJ8E/W8xORGKvjH1yULFUx9G F0RW/MwemdH7CGssBTw= X-Received: by 10.36.210.194 with SMTP id z185mr4212649itf.102.1503247146896; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from OwnerPC (host-184-166-88-214.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net. [184.166.88.214]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j200sm3154958itj.2.2017.08.20.09.39.05 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Aug 2017 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolers Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 10:39:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0099_01D319A0.8ADD3150" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01D319A0.8ADD3150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it is more complicated than that. Roughly 1/3 of the rejected = heat is from the oil, and 2/3 from the water. All heat must eventually = be rejected to the air. An oil-to-air cooler is rejecting 180F oil to = ~90-100F air, while a oil-water is rejecting to hot water ( greater than = 100F maybe 150), additionally if 1/3 comes from the oil and you are = forcing it all to the water the water exchanger would at least have to = be 50% larger or in your example 1800 cu in. From: william Aldridge=20 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolers Just trying to understand how these laminova exchangers work. I'm just = pulling numbers out of the air for this. So here's my understanding of = how a cooling system with a laminova would work: let's say you have a = water heat exchanger with 1200 cu inches of volume and a oil cooler with = 400 cubic inches of volume. If you wanted to use a laminova in this = system you would get rid of the oil cooler and put in a water cooler = with 1600 cu inches of volume to handle the heat load that used to be = handled by the oil cooler. Am i in the ballpark here?=20 Thanks,=20 Will Aldridge=20 Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone In a message dated 8/18/2017 7:18:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: The only one that I found on eBay! I was watching for years when I got a notice that one was listed and = then I won the auction. I think it came out of England. It still wasn't = cheap but had never been used. https://goo.gl/photos/JDJMBhxzdZBXSFfn8 I don't remember the model number and there isn't one that I can see = on it. On Fri, Aug 18, 2017, 07:33 A R Goldman, = wrote: Todd I too am using the laminova-- not started the engine yet and = won't for a while-- Which model did you choose??? Thanx Rich Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Todd Bartrim = wrote: Hi Andrew; =20 I put one of these Laminova exchangers from Mocal in my plane. https://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/Mocal_Heat_Exchangers Very compact but still a few pounds, but it seems to work well so = far. I used to see better oil cooling in climb than water cooling, but = in cruise I had better water cooling than oil cooling. This was likely from my old, good looking oil cooler scoop, = which I don't think was very efficient. I've cut that off and changed it = to more of a P51 style scoop. Still looks ok, but it should work much = better, so when I return to flight I'll not be able to say definitively = if any improvements are due to the Laminova cooler or the improved = airflow. However, so far in static ground tests my H2O/Oil temps are = quite close. Todd waiting for the smoke to clear Virus-free. www.avast.com =20 Todd Bartrim On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Lehanover = wrote: Lynn, from your explanation, seems to confirm my gut feel that I = need to have that external OCV, to cool all the oil being pumped. but = maybe I could use a oil to coolant exchanger to even up the system = capacities. Cheers Andrew I tried one of those years ago. Big. Very heavy with both water = and oil inside. Oil temps were fine. Water temps too high. I cut off = the outer shell and used it as a oil to air, transmission cooler. It is = just a standard oil to air cooler in a box full of water.=20 Mazda had one in the RX-7...........for one year. I mounted = under the oil filter. Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01D319A0.8ADD3150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think it is more complicated than that. Roughly 1/3 of the = rejected heat=20 is from the oil, and 2/3 from the water. All heat must eventually be = rejected to=20 the air. An oil-to-air cooler is rejecting 180F oil to ~90-100F air, = while a=20 oil-water is rejecting to hot water ( greater than 100F maybe 150), = additionally=20 if 1/3 comes from the oil and you are forcing it all to the water the = water=20 exchanger would at least have to be 50% larger or in your example 1800 = cu=20 in.
 
 
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:05 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolers
 
Just trying to understand how these laminova exchangers work. I'm = just=20 pulling numbers out of the air for this.  So here's my = understanding of how=20 a cooling system with a laminova would work: let's say you have a water = heat=20 exchanger with 1200 cu inches of volume and a oil cooler with 400 cubic = inches=20 of volume.  If you wanted to use a laminova in this system you = would get=20 rid of the oil cooler and put in a water cooler with 1600 cu inches of = volume to=20 handle the heat load that used to be handled by the oil cooler.  Am = i in=20 the ballpark here?
 
Thanks,
Will Aldridge
 
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, = Samsung Galaxy=20 smartphone
 
 
 
In a message dated 8/18/2017 7:18:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

The only one that I found on eBay!
I was watching for = years when=20 I got a notice that one was listed and then I won the auction. I think = it came=20 out of England. It still wasn't cheap but had never been used.

https://goo.gl/photos/JDJMBhxzdZBXSFfn8

I don't remember the model number and there isn't one = that I can=20 see on it.


On Fri, Aug 18, 2017, 07:33 A R Goldman, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
Todd I too am using the laminova-- not started the engine yet = and won't=20 for a while--
 
Which model did = you=20 choose???
 
Thanx
 
Rich

Sent = from my=20 iPhone

On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Hi Andrew; =20
  I put one of these Laminova exchangers from Mocal in = my=20 plane.
https://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/Mocal_Heat_E= xchangers
Very compact but still a few pounds, but it seems to work = well so=20 far.
I used to see better oil cooling in climb than water cooling, = but in=20 cruise I had better water cooling than oil cooling.
  This was likely from my old, good looking oil cooler = scoop,=20 which I don't think was very efficient. I've cut that off and = changed it=20 to more of a P51 style scoop. Still looks ok, but it should work = much=20 better, so when I return to flight I'll not be able to say = definitively if=20 any improvements are due to the Laminova cooler or the improved = airflow.=20 However, so far in static ground tests my H2O/Oil temps are quite=20 close.
 
Todd   waiting for the smoke to clear

Virus-free.=20 www.avast.com =
3Dhttps://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3D=
 
Todd Bartrim
 
On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:06 PM, = Lehanover <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Lynn, from = your=20 explanation, seems to confirm my gut feel that I need to have = that=20 external OCV, to cool all the oil being pumped. but maybe I = could use a=20 oil to coolant exchanger to even up the system=20 capacities.

Cheers Andrew

I tried one of those = years ago.=20 Big. Very heavy with both water and oil inside. Oil temps were = fine.=20 Water temps too high.  I cut off the outer shell and used = it as a=20 oil to air, transmission cooler. It is just a standard oil to = air cooler=20 in a box full of water.

Mazda had one in the = RX-7...........for one year. I mounted under the oil=20 filter.

Lynn E.=20 Hanover

 

=
 
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