X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-oi0-f44.google.com ([209.85.218.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 9847286 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:06:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.44; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi0-f44.google.com with SMTP id p187so28818126oif.3 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:06:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=dHaJvXrHKruDcBifdPhZO3oVdH94UyFeVqozD/8NqMo=; b=Xylx/9UA7Wiseswx7efZdhBUcG2sXbL+VZKCiljzMsUVIFuX2pUIYwyaUn4CPpoBRM 5OBIUb2iw+L9p0WiQiDIK2vpIaKn5ZQQOR1vjuz8jGWOD6b/8tlSRrAhIWIIhB46cy6E AhlS1vjchQukG/+ca9VN9HZPLGM68n8ALk+sCAjI5DFb9J3cXzc+ZJbPvDK12Jy7K3tB 5cWqFdI9XVq8lkNWj4rWzwwrAuWL9Cu7AG9u2FnT6wR0duj714XbOQaidmPHokbXwero Af1WR6tjnt8BRI2AcUIueFS3FqmndgQeX2Q461kcXNvO35cc2/eZruEHtdOgwWjkcwNk isKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=dHaJvXrHKruDcBifdPhZO3oVdH94UyFeVqozD/8NqMo=; b=QaDcXlwHF32e7LGpKNuv4HrKDqIVDndbb76CvZ9yS1c4SsIRy7FBiYmePCd927jQ+s K5xvv1fAbWJp5u8UV2J/70R2Fjp4rU9jQp6KJMADMRoP5cgv05P7l2piWuNWvGefHqvR H6P34W1k2pwgDT9l77U0976NeHDooDIgX+ww7nd3EZVP9NZsIg7aMhN9JUL0aHJIi2m/ igU2ZlpTuOtiockjyAI/UrA9RLAWYaS90SR0ezedkSm5LZj8nRXLp91/1lqellE6gmsn pGY5Sk2ead3JAO8ZFmwb093Nk4hk6JydCniVXWDDZhW1x7pEo+tyY3dT3GHAsQ/OyD2c ZxsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwMEQYieDvwEqy2F/rgrAzC0Hse62aGCmGZZ0joYacOUTDv8wQc YGEKBP0Hv8IywhnK X-Received: by 10.202.48.21 with SMTP id w21mr755048oiw.67.1498237585710; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.228] (adsl-98-95-172-105.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.172.105]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id t203sm1796031oit.37.2017.06.23.10.06.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flywheel or Spline modification To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <4b356f74-301d-b45d-731b-df7dd2fcaf40@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:09:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------51C8C560EE62FB6CFBFE69FE" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 170623-2, 06/23/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------51C8C560EE62FB6CFBFE69FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Additional thought (or question...). With most soft coupling designs, if the soft part fails, the hard parts can rattle against each other but motive force is still transmitted, at least for some time (hopefully long enough to get back on the ground safely). What happens with your design if the soft part does fail? (Failure analysis shouldn't assume no failure; it should ask about the results of a failure.) Please know that we're all grateful someone is trying to make drives available. I'm hoping that I'm giving constructive feedback; not criticism. Charlie On 6/23/2017 11:55 AM, Charlie England wrote: > Isn't that average torque? The pulses are nowhere near as bad as a > piston engine, but peaks are significantly higher than average. I > can't help but think that if soft couplings worked at shaft diameter, > we'd see a lot more of them in production use (I haven't). > > But I'm not creating things, I just assemble others' stuff. :-) > > On 6/22/2017 11:23 PM, Neil Unger wrote: >> >> Charlie, the torque from the engine is something like 280 Ft/ Lbs >> from memory. This coupling was tested at 400 ft / lbs with just a >> slight movement. Time will tell who is right. Neil. >> >> >> On 6/23/2017 12:46 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> Uh, not that I know anything, but if I did, I'd say I see your >>> problem. :-) Isn't the stress on a soft coupling that close to the >>> 'axle' going to be massive? I thought that the whole reason for >>> putting the soft components out at some significant radius from >>> center was to reduce the load on them. >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> On 6/22/2017 8:50 PM, Neil Unger wrote: >>>> >>>> All , As usual I forgot to attach a photo, This is the first one >>>> with the green Polyurethane flex that was a failure. New one has a >>>> further lightened Alloy base with a rubber flex. Neil. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/23/2017 11:40 AM, Neil Unger wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kelly and all, The flexdrive I now have under test for the new >>>>> redrive bolts directly onto the E shaft and is not connected in >>>>> any way to the flex plate, other than to hold it onto the E >>>>> shaft. I originally used polyurethane as the "Flex" but it >>>>> disintegrated within hours. >>>>> >>>>> Next was to go back to a flex rubber vulcanized coupling that >>>>> looks great but yet untested. The rubber is the same as engine >>>>> mount rubber and if that fails there are many grades of rubber >>>>> available. Results shortly once I get my new Fuel Tech ECU to >>>>> actually run the engine!! Neil Unger. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/23/2017 11:15 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >>>>>> Mark, >>>>>> >>>>>> The RD2C direct "Rigid" connection from flywheel to the >>>>>> Redrive is somewhat a mystery to me and I suspect to most on the >>>>>> "Flyrotary" list.........I have never seen any photos of this >>>>>> setup and only vague descriptions.........I do not know if any on >>>>>> the list purchased A RD2C and am aware of only the one installed >>>>>> on Tracy's RV8......... >>>>>> If any on the list has more knowledge or actually has seen one >>>>>> please speak up and provide photos if possible.........I >>>>>> personally have gone with the a (13 lb) steel flywheel and >>>>>> the"Soft" damper provided with the RD1C by Tracy......This is the >>>>>> "Fix" for a failed Gen 2 flex-plate used by Dave Leonard on his >>>>>> Turbo/13B RV6 while racing at Reno.......... >>>>>> >>>>>> Kelly Troyer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Mark McClure >>>>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> So with my inability to find a gen2 RX-7 flexplate I have >>>>>> ordered a lightweight steel Flywheel from RacingBeat. >>>>>> >>>>>> My thoughts are to have the 4 bolt holes machined in the >>>>>> flexplate or 6 holes in the spline and drill out the rivets >>>>>> to remove the damper plate. >>>>>> >>>>>> From reading the archives it seems the spline directly >>>>>> mounted is what Tracy did for the RD-2C but that it's a >>>>>> different spline setup. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone done this? Am I better to continue searching for the >>>>>> auto flexplate? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> >>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------51C8C560EE62FB6CFBFE69FE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Additional thought (or question...). With most soft coupling designs, if the soft part fails, the hard parts can rattle against each other but motive force is still transmitted, at least for some time (hopefully long enough to get back on the ground safely). What happens with your design if the soft part does fail? (Failure analysis shouldn't assume no failure; it should ask about the results of a failure.)

Please know that we're all grateful someone is trying to make drives available. I'm hoping that I'm giving constructive feedback; not criticism.

Charlie

On 6/23/2017 11:55 AM, Charlie England wrote:
Isn't that average torque? The pulses are nowhere near as bad as a piston engine, but peaks are significantly higher than average. I can't help but think that if soft couplings worked at shaft diameter, we'd see a lot more of them in production use (I haven't).

But I'm not creating things, I just assemble others' stuff. :-)

On 6/22/2017 11:23 PM, Neil Unger wrote:

Charlie, the torque from the engine is something like 280 Ft/ Lbs from memory.  This coupling was tested at 400 ft / lbs with just a slight movement.  Time will tell who is right.  Neil.


On 6/23/2017 12:46 PM, Charlie England wrote:
Uh, not that I know anything, but if I did, I'd say I see your problem. :-) Isn't the stress on a soft coupling that close to the 'axle' going to be massive? I thought that the whole reason for putting the soft components out at some significant radius from center was to reduce the load on them.

Charlie

On 6/22/2017 8:50 PM, Neil Unger wrote:

All , As usual I forgot to attach a photo,  This is the first one with the green Polyurethane flex that was a failure.  New one has a further lightened Alloy base with a rubber flex.  Neil.


On 6/23/2017 11:40 AM, Neil Unger wrote:

Kelly and all,  The flexdrive I now have under test for the new redrive bolts directly onto the E shaft and is not connected in any way to the flex plate, other than to hold it onto the E shaft.  I originally used polyurethane as the "Flex" but it disintegrated within hours.

Next was to go back to a flex rubber vulcanized coupling that looks great but yet untested.  The rubber is the same as engine mount rubber and if that fails there are many grades of rubber available.   Results shortly once I get my new Fuel Tech ECU to actually run the engine!!  Neil Unger.



On 6/23/2017 11:15 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Mark,

   The RD2C  direct  "Rigid" connection from flywheel to the Redrive is somewhat a mystery to me and I suspect to most on the "Flyrotary" list.........I have never seen any photos of this setup and only vague descriptions.........I  do not know if any on 
the list purchased A RD2C and am aware of only the one installed on Tracy's RV8.........
  
   If any on the list has more knowledge or actually has seen one please speak up and provide photos if possible.........I personally have gone with the a (13 lb) steel flywheel and the"Soft" damper provided with the RD1C by Tracy......This is the "Fix" for a failed Gen 2 flex-plate used by Dave Leonard on his Turbo/13B RV6 while racing at Reno..........

Kelly Troyer


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Mark McClure <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
So with my inability to find a gen2 RX-7 flexplate I have ordered a lightweight steel Flywheel from RacingBeat.

My thoughts are to have the 4 bolt holes machined in the flexplate or 6 holes in the spline and drill out the rivets to remove the damper plate.

From reading the archives it seems the spline directly mounted is what Tracy did for the RD-2C but that it's a different spline setup.

Anyone done this? Am I better to continue searching for the auto flexplate?

Mark









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