X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 9829039 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:24:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.252.207.39; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.114]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id Lf3ddzO6TU9z5Lf3qdGn2R; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 00:24:26 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1497572666; bh=NOa7du5N7k7cSggFfhikQLGID8s6ENJh8GQmZcAXqTc=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=jI/Otww8TPDhTi4/e3xT0+2JOEMnpgnqPQxC0VYC1/F+Vnmy3yWl3hhBwDGOx3cZU BeVVHlGKtsfh1QS8rnnii+LBBkDrt7x8aOz08dA/3yMdfbrTZ/t4NMLCtZhfFZdc1/ a1UuJrlUb4YxBDxOSIMFBKCJOaoz6S15NkFDJUWP7JgagYCHCBWHq26gsUBc+9UMn0 CiMYHzB6jdSeiEWrYdRgWS6oo4kCsYGFEJam6CEC8QkT4R/rXaJEQYlOmI6vpHoPFu jDKa2aNDGm+cwD7bnzY9fsiKZP4j6YLE1irVh5mGH2sNS3v/KBNq6bLHPHOhpLvmAF Mo90JZFQ9/gVg== Received: from resmail-ch2-632v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.50.156]) by resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id Lf3qdj7EoStKdLf3qdFIrl; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 00:24:26 +0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 00:24:26 +0000 (UTC) To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" Message-ID: <1191040269.54243561.1497572666664.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: ceramic coating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_54243560_612870983.1497572666661" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:68.49.229.174] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.7_GA_6031 (ZimbraWebClient - GC51 (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: ceramic coating Thread-Index: T7eb1ygBcwxuyavcl1YstzUrSKXe3A== X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJ/2ZYUL5idhDrIktiC8YA2Ia/UWaI2SlSnsRQWKgv/ajEKNSIpouce1PGoWMv/RnAopVM6YmxmFSHtHMpG4ZCrvUgBJ6BL/1hqPDrmWQFD1vpLmgbtr tO5edmfPBIPZE0tqDYwqualvq9bDCmaYkYWGjR8xkUURgmDpdN3npum88WWOU+ECgrSVanjSrEWoZ+ENUsXzlKfihAWTLB5uT1U= ------=_Part_54243560_612870983.1497572666661 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Jet-Hot that's the one, thanks Bill. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Jepson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:48:44 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: ceramic coating Charlie, Agreed on the explainin'. FWIW Jet -hot does make those claims. I can tell you from personal experience that it does work. Yes you must send your parts to them to get them coated. It is a baked on process like powder coating, but with a ceramic base. The best results ARE when doing tubes inside and out. I even found that I picked up just a bit of power on the dyno after the process. Bill Jepson On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Charlie England < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > wrote: I did a bit of research a few years ago. The 'bite your butt' aspect of all of them is that they need to go in the interior to really do some good (protect the metal of the manifold/exhaust itself, in addition to the under-cowl stuff), Even the pro coaters I talked to were not very encouraging about trying to coat a product that has already been in service; just no way to be sure all the interior surfaces got clean, before applying the coating. If you're willing to accept the process as just being better than the wrap, but doing the same thing, then go for it. You do need to look closely at the actual characteristics of the product, too. Some will withstand extreme heat, but do little to block transmission of that heat. They were basically just high heat-tolerance finishes. Many of the products I researched fell into that category, but you really had to dig to get the info. FWIW, I just took a look at the VHT Flameproof web page, and there's no claim whatsoever that it lowers under-hood (cowl) temps. If it were my product, and it did that, I'd certainly flaunt the fact that it did, complete with "twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence" of what a great product it was. Charlie (Apologies to Arlo.) On 6/15/2017 4:45 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote:
It appears that Jet-Hot is a service business and not a product that I can buy. They may have their own proprietary coatings but it doesn't appear that they sell them as a product but only as a service for which I'd have to send my stuff out-of -country to have them apply it. I can get it done here in Canada by any number of businesses that use a variety of products including Cerakote and Ceramakrome. Unfortunately none of them are local and other than VHT, I haven't been able to find a product in Canada to do it myself. So unless somebody speaks up with a glowing recommendation for VHT, then I'll resign myself to shipping them away to have someone do it for me. Todd Bartrim On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:26 PM, William Jepson < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > wrote:
Todd, I haven't used the VHT coating, but I have used the Jet-Hot coatings. They have performed great. They have a high-temp coating that will work for rotaries. The wraps tend to cause corrosion since they seem to trap condensation. Bill Jepson On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Todd Bartrim < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > wrote:
Has anybody tried using VHT Flameproof, ceramic coating ? It's rated up to 2000F intermittent. I've been running my engine with exhaust wraps and am very pleased with the reduction of under cowl temps but am aware of the concerns regarding longevity of the exhaust. As I'm very near to returning to the airport I want to address this and go with a ceramic coating. I have the ability and facilities to apply a proper ceramic coat, but it is difficult to source the material at a reasonable cost and timeframe. I can ship it away and have it done for about the same price and less time. But I can also purchase VHT locally. While it comes in an aerosol can, it is not paint. It can be applied as simple as you would a paint, but for best results, proper cleaning, bead blasting and oven cure are required, not unlike the usual ceramic coats. I always preferr to do things myself, but if anybody can say that this stuff is not up to the hype, then I'll consider shipping out the exhaust to have it done. I have about a week of work to do where I want the exhaust in place, but then I'll be away for a week, during which time I can send it out. Further to this, has anybody ever had their exhaust ceramic coated and then also wrapped it to provide even more heat reduction? Todd Bartrim C-FSTB Turbo 13B RV9a
Virus-free. www.avast.com
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Yes, Jet-Hot that's the one, thanks Bill. David
From: "William Jepson" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To= : "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:48:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: ceramic coating

Charlie,
Agree= d on the explainin'. FWIW Jet -hot does make those claims. I can = tell you from personal experience that it does work. Yes you must send your= parts to them to get them coated. It is a baked on process like powder coating, but with a ceramic base. The best results ARE when d= oing tubes inside and out. I even found that I picked up just a bit of powe= r on the dyno after the process. 
Bill Jepson

O= n Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
I did a bit of rese= arch a few years ago. The 'bite your butt' aspect of all of them is that they need to go in the interior to really do some good (protect the metal of the manifold/exhaust itself, in addition to the under-cowl stuff), Even the pro coaters I talked to were not very encouraging about trying to coat a product that has already been in service; just no way to be sure all the interior surfaces got clean, before applying the coating.

If you're willing to accept the process as just being better than the wrap, but doing the same thing, then go for it. You do need to look closely at the actual characteristics of the product, too. Some will withstand extreme heat, but do little to block transmission of that heat. They were basically just high heat-tolerance finishes. Many of the products I researched fell into that category, but you really had to dig to get the info.

FWIW, I just took a look at the VHT Flameproof web page, and there's no claim whatsoever that it lowers under-hood (cowl) temps. If it were my product, and it did that, I'd certainly flaunt the fact that it did, complete with  "twenty-seven 8 x= 10 colored = glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of 
each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence" of what a great product it was.

Charlie
(Apologies to Arlo.)




On 6/15/2017 4:45 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote:
It appears that Jet-Hot is a service business and not a product that I can buy. They may have their own proprietary coatings but it doesn't appear that they sell them as a product but only as a service for which I'd have to send my stuff out-of -country to have them apply it.
I can get it done here in Canada by any number of businesses that use a variety of products including Cerakote and Ceramakrome. Unfortunately none of them are local and other than VHT, I haven't been able to find a product in Canada to do it myself.
  So unless somebody speaks up with a glowing recommendation for VHT, then I'll resign myself to shipping them away to have someone do it for me.

Todd Bartrim

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:26 PM, William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Todd, I haven't used the VHT coating, but I have used the Jet-Hot coatings. They have performed great. They have a high-temp coating that will work for rotaries. The wraps tend to cause corrosion since they seem to trap condensation.
Bill Jepson

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t> wrote:
Has anybody tried using VHT Flameproof, ceramic coating ? It's rated up to 2000F intermittent.
I've been running my engine with exhaust wraps and am very pleased with the reduction of under cowl temps but am aware of the concerns regarding longevity of the exhaust.
As I'm very near to returning to the airport I want to address this and go with a ceramic coating.
I have the ability and facilities to apply a proper ceramic coat, but it is difficult to source the material at a reasonable cost and timeframe.
  I can ship it away and have it done for about the same price and less time. But I can also purchase VHT locally. While it comes in an aerosol can, it is not paint. It can be applied as simple as you would a paint, but for best results, proper cleaning, bead blasting and oven cure are required, not unlike the usual ceramic coats.
  I always preferr to do things myself, b= ut if anybody can say that this stuff is not up to the hype, then I'll consider shipping out the exhaust to have it done.
  I have about a week of work to do where= I want the exhaust in place, but then I'll be away for a week, during which time I can send it out.
   Further to this, has anybody ever= had their exhaust ceramic coated and then also wrapped it to provide even more heat reduction?

Todd Bartrim
 C-FSTB
Turbo 13B RV9a




=09 =09=09 =09
=3D""Virus-free. www.avast.com =09=09


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