X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Mark Steitle" Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com ([209.85.212.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7692257 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 May 2015 17:22:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.172; envelope-from=msdstx@gmail.com Received: by wicmx19 with SMTP id mx19so24300493wic.0 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 14:22:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Ekg6n6xK1Du/ODij1rJKTNJtGnmwkOIEqJR82fwEUm4=; b=v+OkzMEOw1bR15fBZz0X8Xe8hdQ8YHdFyZlh4HxQH1naSiWD9NTtEL+KmhUBTFImGu M05RQsD0bZr7yL4CcrM+Yn1MKQRVI5AsRBaNuszSg1tBHxH3siJVaCyvK33fcm9RCEh3 5NPAEfRz/p3A52TUl9vTZ6qw7OQ3nXqi1mMgY3vMPkIbPPekrQ6Gl4F+LNDL4eXbw7ga 2NW/65ZpmXspZ9ASP8KtTHIVY4iyRHiDdBJLNu+heRlM6z7PJhrZbR6bEc+3snjSDmYn 0+FtDyQqR3ZxT/A2BACGIBZrBVSM7k8OQFggTzDrjyfA+MfcyY0VpY06YlZt5UDA0hr4 6rSA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.24.196 with SMTP id w4mr11896571wjf.137.1431638526323; Thu, 14 May 2015 14:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.167.68 with HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2015 14:22:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 16:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b450b10cef0100516115114 --047d7b450b10cef0100516115114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good reason to go the peripheral port route. Also, pay attention to intake runner length so as to achieve max power at a reasonable (for a/c use) rpm. Mark On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Well, I really like my rotary and I am happy that I chose that > engine. It is really smooth and I like the sound of it, but I have to > admit that I was led down the primrose path a bit on what to expect in > performance. I also think a lot of others are as well. We toss out HP > numbers with abandon but they have little to do with what you really get > with the engine. > > > > The rotary is an RPM engine. It makes very little torque and gets its HP > from RPM. These RPMs are in ranges that we just don=E2=80=99t achieve wi= th the > airplane. Nobody cruises at 8500 rpm, or even hits that number on takeof= f, > yet that is the rpm that the HP numbers are reported. > > > > When I first cranked my engine, I had a Performance Prop that was designe= d > to give a 200 mph cruise at 6000 rpm. I could only get a static rpm of > about 4500 out of it. I was concerned that I would not have enough power > for a take off! I lucked out and found an MT electric and I now start my > takeoff run at 7100 rpm. I think that with my homemade intake and exhaus= t, > that I am somewhere between 180 and 200 HP at that rpm. We are talking s= ea > level here. When I moved to Texas I noticed a definite loss of power > taking off from a 1000 ft field vs a field elevation of 55 ft. if you pu= ll > the rpms back to 5500-6000 for cruise and climb up to 8000 ft, you are > talking about a serious drop in power. I am probably in the 125 hp range > up there. I really would have to think about it before I would land at a > field that was 6-7K feet of elevation. > > > > I have attached a file of dynos of various engines. The top graph is a > 20B that is boosted to 45 inches. I doubt any of us would boost above > 38-40 inches, so all those numbers would be lower for us. The middle is = a > 1987 NA 13B that is making about 165 HP at 6500 and the last is a Renesis > that is using the factory bells and whistles on the intake that I had to > remove and throw away. It is also a 6 port which breathes better than th= e > 4 port that I have. > > > > So if you looked at one of those graphs and the power produced at your rp= m > and reduced it by the altitude you are flying at, you will see that you a= re > not getting the power that you were probably thinking about when you made > the decision to install the engine. I am not saying anything negative > about the engines or my decision to install it. I am just saying we shou= ld > be realistic and understand what we are doing. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:03 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > photo of bottom > > > > Bill, > > I bought my 20B from another builder ($2600.) > > I thought about a two rotor of some sort with a turbo but it kind of went > against the logic of why I wanted a rotary in the first place. > > The difference in weight for 300hp (and simple) vs. ~260 with the turbo > was a good compromise in my judgement. > > > > T Mann > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --047d7b450b10cef0100516115114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good reason to go the peripheral port route.=C2=A0 Al= so, pay attention to intake runner length so as to achieve max power at a r= easonable (for a/c use) rpm.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Mark

On Thu, May 1= 4, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:

Well, I really like = my rotary and I am happy that I chose that engine.=C2=A0 It is really smooth and I like the so= und of it, but I have to admit that I was led down the primrose path a bit on w= hat to expect in performance.=C2=A0 I also think a lot of others are as well.= =C2=A0 We toss out HP numbers with abandon but they have little to do with what yo= u really get with the engine.

=C2=A0=

The rotary is an RPM= engine.=C2=A0 It makes very little torque and gets its HP from RPM.=C2=A0 These RPMs are in ranges that we just don=E2=80=99t achieve with the airplane.=C2=A0 Nobody cruises = at 8500 rpm, or even hits that number on takeoff, yet that is the rpm that the= HP numbers are reported.

=C2=A0=

When I first cranked= my engine, I had a Performance Prop that was designed to give a 200 mph cruise at 6000 rpm.=C2= =A0 I could only get a static rpm of about 4500 out of it.=C2=A0 I was concerned = that I would not have enough power for a take off!=C2=A0 I lucked out and found = an MT electric and I now start my takeoff run at 7100 rpm.=C2=A0 I think that = with my homemade intake and exhaust, that I am somewhere between 180 and 200 HP = at that rpm.=C2=A0 We are talking sea level here.=C2=A0 When I moved to Texas I noticed a definite loss of power taking off from a 1000 ft field vs a field elevation= of 55 ft.=C2=A0 if you pull the rpms back to 5500-6000 for cruise and climb up= to 8000 ft, you are talking about a serious drop in power.=C2=A0 I am probably= in the 125 hp range up there.=C2=A0 I really would have to think about it befo= re I would land at a field that was 6-7K feet of elevation.=

=C2=A0=

I have attached a fi= le of dynos of various engines.=C2=A0 The top graph is a 20B that is boosted to 45 inches.=C2=A0 I= doubt any of us would boost above 38-40 inches, so all those numbers would be low= er for us.=C2=A0 The middle is a 1987 NA 13B that is making about 165 HP at 65= 00 and the last is a Renesis that is using the factory bells and whistles on t= he intake that I had to remove and throw away.=C2=A0 It is also a 6 port which breathes better than the 4 port that I have.

=C2=A0=

So if you looked at = one of those graphs and the power produced at your rpm and reduced it by the altitude you are flying at, you will see that you are not getting the power that you were probably thinking about when you made the decision to install the engine.= =C2=A0 I am not saying anything negative about the engines or my decision to insta= ll it.=C2=A0 I am just saying we should be realistic and understand what we ar= e doing.

=C2=A0=

From:<= font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015= 11:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Que= stions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

=C2=A0

Bill,

I bought my 20= B from another builder ($2600.)

I thought abou= t a two rotor of some sort with a turbo but it kind of went against the logic of wh= y I wanted a rotary in the first place.

The difference= in weight for 300hp (and simple) vs. ~260 with the turbo was a good compromise= in my judgement.

=C2=A0<= u>

T Mann<= u>

=C2=A0


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net:= 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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