X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "David Leonard" Received: from mail-qg0-f53.google.com ([209.85.192.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1c1) with ESMTPS id 7340627 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:18:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.53; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id l89so3855727qgf.26 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:17:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4D/hPChJAVRprVhSQ4sRktb277wwRn2ZHHPgJkrm2ak=; b=Lf99lP3M0jxOUkLesiytwn3IY9/son2oj4JGT3V7nBX9ZR3xrynHPV96srfbulIB8p kJfrgJmF5wE5ZvNEwm91qJwq5MzSAeSliq3iGdMi8c0QyOnpX9MpfxkqVI7yXnxnNYSe 5GWqF6nfXxqtcFWsB8O6ysnK8hoIG9XCgozbJM2rKqEcrdy6rvkY+qXFeCKEVyz375QV JKu+g216uSd9CtkKTTWOA7GDz5ciGB40F+sWu6Snz6OkQ4uEQckUzsuEOikt0nAWOS0E JcRCxFBB3DnfZ+GNOR3YrV0xxUwAjHlHD0e3nGUbDEAt81qYsXYmcaMW3RdOO9pVQegN RFlQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.65.134 with SMTP id j6mr20706333qai.90.1418311059662; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.23.20 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:17:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:17:39 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: smoke system control, was: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: the List To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2c9a4e46d4a0509f24685 --001a11c2c9a4e46d4a0509f24685 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In a perfect world I would have a turbo p-port 3-rotor. :-) I sort of ended up with a turbo because it was just sitting there (came with my '91 turbo engine) so I decided to try it on for size and it never went away. I am glad I have it, but the 3-rotor and/or p-port would have been nice options. The turbo quiets things down just enough to be tolerable, but my formation friends can hear me when I am flying on their wing... largely because the sound is different, but it is also a little louder I think. But is is quieter than a n/a rotary engine by just enough to matter. The turbo is not particularly less expensive than a p-port in the long run. By the time I got most of the issues worked out I am in for over $5k in turbo rebuilds and non-fitting manifolds etc. Even when cared for correctly (keeping EGT down), they are only going to last 1000 hrs or so (who knows) and each rebuild costs $1k. In the long run though, these costs or the costs of a p-port or 3-rotor are trivial when compared with the cost of operating an aircraft. If my turbo has cost me $5/hr, then Avionics have cost $20/hr, gas has been $45/hr and the hangar has been about $50/hr. Dont let the relatively small cost differences sway your decision here. The turbo definitely adds much more power than p-port would, both down low and up high. And with the p-port the sound issue is not trivial if your are going to be maximizing the power output. Lets put it this way, you wont find me ever removing my turbo. But, if I were to do it again, I would probably go with a 3-rotor. Pretty close to the same power as the turbo, weighs a little more but is more reliable and efficient. There have been many examples of successfully (and continued) flying of turbos and 3-rotors. But p-ports in aircraft are sort of like UFOs: you hear a lot about them, but you never really see one. Not to say that p-port isn't the best option. It is light weight, simple (in a sense), reliable, efficient, lower drag, and brings the power of a 2-rotor right where you need it for something like an RV. I hope this discussion has be helpful (yea right!). Dave Leonard On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Neil Unger wrote: > Dave, > A few of us in OZ were discussing your engine with full > authority (Called ignorance) and wondered what engine you have and what > your thoughts are re the turbo. Is it worth the effort?? Just looking to > save the P port cost, and get a slight HP boost, with the muffler problem > eliminated. Does it actually work that way, or is it too much grief? Neil. > > *From:* David Leonard > *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:04 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: smoke system control, was: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: > the List > > everyone agrees that although the sound of my rotary is a cry for > attention, It does make the best smoke of the group. > > Here is a picture of the pump placement > > David Leonard > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 10:38 AM, David Leonard < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> I have smoke on my plane, I just used the same pump as the EFI pump >> that Tracy used to sell. it weighs less than a pound and puts out about >> the right flow rate. Built in check valve. I have not problem with >> leaking. instant cutoff. Tank is in the wing and pump in the wing root >> which keeps the system and oil smell out of the baggage area. >> >> The rotary makes nice hot exhaust which is great for supporting a lot of >> oil without leaving a residue (except for the 2-stroke oil) >> >> Dave Leonard >> >> On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Charlie England < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1417917551-356-672&action=search >>> >>> This is made to control fuel to primer ports on a carb'd engine, but >>> would probably do the job. No idea how well it would survive the heat of >>> the engine compartment, where it would need to be for a quick/clean cutoff. >>> Maybe mounted low on the firewall away from the air exit, with the lines >>> running uphill to the smoke port on the exhaust? >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> On 12/6/2014 2:59 PM, hoursaway1 wrote: >>> >>> Yep, I'm here in Michigan doing holiday stuff & visiting kids/grand >>> kids. also am working on a smoke sys. for the RV6A Rotary, want min. 3 >>> gal., portable, useing automotive fuel pump, looking for a solinoid valve >>> control for flow ( no dribbling soft smoke trail ). David R. Cook >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Fly rotary blog, e-mail" mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> >>> *To: *"Fly rotary blog, e-mail" mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> >>> *Sent: *Friday, December 5, 2014 10:10:54 PM >>> *Subject: *[FlyRotary] Re: the List >>> >>> The last message that I seem to have received from the list was 11/19. >>> this >>> is a test to see if I have inadvertently been dropped. >>> Bill Schertz >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> > > ------------------------------ > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --001a11c2c9a4e46d4a0509f24685 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a perfect world I would have a turbo p-port 3-rotor. :-= )

I sort of ended up with a turbo because it was just si= tting there (came with my '91 turbo engine) so I decided to try it on f= or size and it never went away.=C2=A0 I am glad I have it, but the 3-rotor = and/or p-port would have been nice options.=C2=A0 The turbo quiets things d= own just enough to be tolerable, but my formation friends can hear me when = I am flying on their wing... =C2=A0largely because the sound is different, = but it is also a little louder I think.=C2=A0 But is is quieter than a n/a = rotary engine by just enough to matter.

The turbo is not= particularly less expensive than a p-port in the long run.=C2=A0 By the ti= me I got most of the issues worked out I am in for over $5k in turbo rebuil= ds and non-fitting manifolds etc.=C2=A0 Even when cared for correctly (keep= ing EGT down), they are only going to last 1000 hrs or so (who knows) and e= ach rebuild costs $1k.=C2=A0 In the long run though, these costs or the cos= ts of a p-port or 3-rotor are trivial when compared with the cost of operat= ing an aircraft.=C2=A0 If my turbo has cost me $5/hr, then Avionics have co= st $20/hr, gas has been $45/hr and the hangar has been about $50/hr.=C2=A0 = Dont let the relatively small cost differences sway your decision here.

The turbo definitely adds much more power than p-port= would, both down low and up high.=C2=A0 And with the p-port the sound issu= e is not trivial if your are going to be maximizing the power output. Lets = put it this way, you wont find me ever removing my turbo.

But, if I were to do it again, I would probably go with a 3-rotor.= =C2=A0 Pretty close to the same power as the turbo, weighs a little more bu= t is more reliable and efficient.=C2=A0 There have been many examples of su= ccessfully (and continued) flying of turbos and 3-rotors.=C2=A0 But p-ports= in aircraft are sort of like UFOs: =C2=A0you hear a lot about them, but yo= u never really see one.

Not to say that p-port isn= 't the best option.=C2=A0 It is light weight, simple (in a sense), reli= able, efficient, lower drag, and brings the power of a 2-rotor right where = you need it for something like an RV.

I hope this = discussion has be helpful (yea right!).

Dave Leona= rd


On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Neil Unger <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Dave,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A f= ew of=20 us in OZ were discussing your engine with full authority (Called ignorance)= and=20 wondered what engine you have and what your thoughts are re the turbo.=C2= =A0 Is=20 it worth the effort??=C2=A0 Just looking to save the P port cost, and get a= =20 slight HP boost, with the muffler problem eliminated.=C2=A0 Does it actuall= y=20 work that way, or is it too much grief?=C2=A0 Neil.
=C2=A0
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= /div>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: smoke system control, was: Re: [FlyRot= ary]=20 Re: the List
=C2=A0
everyone agrees that although the sound of my rotary is a = cry for=20 attention, It does make the best smoke of the group.=20
=C2=A0
Here is a picture of the pump placement
=C2=A0
David Leonard
=C2=A0
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 10:38 A= M, David Leonard <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:
I have smoke on my plane, I just used the same pump as t= he EFI=20 pump that Tracy used to sell.=C2=A0 it weighs less than a pound and puts = out=20 about the right flow rate.=C2=A0 Built in check valve.=C2=A0 I have not= =20 problem with leaking. instant cutoff.=C2=A0 Tank is in the wing and pump = in=20 the wing root which keeps the system and oil smell out of the baggage are= a.=20
=C2=A0
The rotary makes nice hot exhaust which is great for supporting a lo= t of=20 oil without leaving a residue (except for the 2-stroke oil)
=C2=A0
Dave Leonard
=C2=A0
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 6:05 P= M, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> w= rote:

=C2=A0

--
Homepage:= =C2=A0 http://www.f= lyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= /a>

=C2=A0

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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