X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "James R. Osborn" Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com ([209.85.192.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.10) with ESMTPS id 7285312 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:03 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.173; envelope-from=rxcited@gmail.com Received: by mail-pd0-f173.google.com with SMTP id ft15so4049339pdb.32 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:03:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=fDjE6WXa4DyU/WGyfHOtyTxah2dLvc1ChNjCygHsK1I=; b=db2naMbjDzZqbPdwzeA5QbFpI7gp59U6rEcPqM9DI5r2JJ93nfeqryue8gO1XWzelu QAzWo/DHB2auAnkAx2nJqbDpME9InqBbzm0Kvc5J65BDhVE15H7c38S/7JcLA9UKKzDX tJp3Tbj4XcOLMGY4dsOXIFj+be4DzwI3H5g6LIaQRVAkW3sldnJG5pump45rEOawy2FS 04vTBfeb8jG9Glx1dKASA2iJpG03iMWTzYbi06pjPTVnmO41xe8cCUA1DljqeFoL2RCM yxNz1leCl2IPXN033eY7d5PYjoMqvgo9pXg71vLMP+9w8CRpaYoK/zPOM62kFmTGWGys OtkQ== X-Received: by 10.70.42.98 with SMTP id n2mr1393260pdl.139.1416528208984; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:03:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from jrosborn-m76.dhcp.lbl.gov (jrosborn-m76.dhcp.lbl.gov. [128.3.130.159]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id dk1sm3038645pdb.48.2014.11.20.16.03.27 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:03:28 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9237C580-8DCB-4222-B9F9-6EDAFBADBA49" Message-Id: <4F0422FA-690C-4EC1-9FCF-9BBBFEDC8159@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] New Rotary powerplant Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:03:25 -0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) --Apple-Mail=_9237C580-8DCB-4222-B9F9-6EDAFBADBA49 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 It is different because of the internal passages in their rotor where = the air-fuel mixture and exhaust pass (on opposite sides). This allows = them to have port timing that is very different than the ports on a = Wankel. The net effect of this seems to be to allow for higher = compression on the intake and more expansion on the exhaust. I don=92t = claim to understand the thermodynamic cycle explanations in terms of = expected efficiencies, but they are definitely decoupling the intake and = exhaust timing from the simple passing of apexes and/or rotor edges as = in the Wankel. > On Nov 20, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Richard Sohn = wrote: >=20 > It looks to me simply like an inside-out Wankel. The rotor has the = inside shape of the rotor housing, and the rotor housing is the inside = shape of a rotor. Everything else would be the same. > =20 > Richard Sohn > N2071U >=20 > http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html > =20 > From: Ernest Christley > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:10 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Rotary powerplant > =20 > The 13B's poor fuel burn, extremely hot exhaust and extremely loud = exhaust were all caused in large part by the unburned fuel in the quench = areas of the cylinder near the apex seals. It appears that this engine = is using direct injection into a recess in the combustion chamber. The = recess is practically spherical, minimizing heat transfer to the metal = in the body of the engine. The burn occurs there, and then expands out = into the larger chamber where there will be some fresh air not pushed = into the combustion chamber that will help burn any remaining = hydrocarbons and be expanded by the combustion heat as it waits for the = exhaust port to come around. >=20 > This design will still have the same inter-chamber sealing issues that = the 13B has. It still has the same lubricating issues that the rotary = has. But, both are minor issues compared to that of fuel burn and = exhaust problems that are the bane of the Wankel. This could be very = promising for experimental aircraft use if they started producing larger = models (for generators perhaps). > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:56 PM, James R. Osborn = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Interesting: > =20 > http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/ = > =20 >> On Nov 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Jack Hilditch = > = wrote: >> =20 >> The Hartford Courant has a story this morning about a new rotary = engine manufactured by a Connecticut company called LiquidPiston. The = company was started in 2003 and has secured $21 million in development = funds since then. Company president and founder Alec Shkolnik holds a = doctorate from MIT. He and his physicist father Nikolay started the = LiquidPiston company in 2003. The story (with videos) can be found here = http://www.courant.com/business/hc-liquid-piston-bloomfield-new-engine-201= 41119-story.html = >> =20 >> Regards, >> =20 >> Jack Hilditch >> Email: wmjack@t3cs.net > =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_9237C580-8DCB-4222-B9F9-6EDAFBADBA49 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 It is different because of the internal passages in their = rotor where the air-fuel mixture and exhaust pass (on opposite sides). =  This allows them to have port timing that is very different than = the ports on a Wankel.  The net effect of this seems to be to allow = for higher compression on the intake and more expansion on the exhaust. =  I don=92t claim to understand the thermodynamic cycle explanations = in terms of expected efficiencies, but they are definitely decoupling = the intake and exhaust timing from the simple passing of apexes and/or = rotor edges as in the Wankel.

On = Nov 20, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Richard Sohn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

It looks to me simply like an inside-out Wankel. The = rotor has the inside=20 shape of the rotor housing, and the rotor housing is the inside shape of = a=20 rotor. Everything else would be the same.
 
Richard=20= Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
=
 
From: Ernest = Christley
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:10 = PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Rotary = powerplant
 
=
The 13B's poor fuel burn, extremely hot = exhaust and extremely loud=20 exhaust were all caused in large part by the unburned fuel in the quench = areas=20 of the cylinder near the apex seals.   It appears that=20 this engine is using direct injection into a recess in the=20 combustion chamber.  The recess is practically spherical, = minimizing=20 heat transfer to the metal in the body of the engine.  The burn = occurs=20 there, and then expands out into the larger chamber where there will be = some=20 fresh air not pushed into the combustion chamber that will help burn any=20= remaining hydrocarbons and be expanded by the combustion heat as it = waits for=20 the exhaust port to come around.

This=20= design will still have the same inter-chamber sealing issues that the = 13B=20 has.  It still has the same lubricating issues that the rotary = has. =20 But, both are minor issues compared to that of fuel burn and exhaust = problems=20 that are the bane of the Wankel.  This could be very promising for=20= experimental aircraft use if they started producing larger models (for=20= generators perhaps).
 


On = Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:56 PM,=20 James R. Osborn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:


Interesting:
 
http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/=20
 
On Nov 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Jack Hilditch <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
The=20 Hartford Courant has a story this morning about a new rotary engine=20 manufactured by a Connecticut company called LiquidPiston. The company = was=20 started in 2003 and has secured $21 million in development funds since = then.=20 Company president and founder Alec Shkolnik holds a doctorate from = MIT. He and=20 his physicist father Nikolay started the LiquidPiston company in 2003. = The=20 story (with videos) can be found here http://www.courant.com/business/hc-liquid-piston-bloomfield-new= -engine-20141119-story.html
 
Regards,
 
Jack Hilditch
Email: wmjack@t3cs.net
 



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