X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm13-vm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([216.109.115.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.10) with ESMTPS id 7285138 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:41:48 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.109.115.6; envelope-from=echristley@att.net Received: from [66.196.81.162] by nm13.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Nov 2014 22:41:12 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.149] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Nov 2014 22:41:12 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Nov 2014 22:41:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 494231.56200.bm@omp1025.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 38913 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Nov 2014 22:41:11 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1416523271; bh=myjnKAftoygWe1B4sVMFBTBwvjoQOnMl+pzPA631HWM=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=24FQNTW2KrAE4V49hP1vMtui9qUEOcMMRjJZjk8hRRS/tBV823X970mg9wEKr1wHpSHuQFX2lLASRk4fIWMIv+kACG9FyliIv0LoAX81IsSEZMFoYdSi/nfIFSoq/GNdm/5iInlgqsCpRGjRhM70EcbOpeflbnSnC+81C0SGpWA= X-YMail-OSG: ssvuSJsVM1mq3Dc0LHhA21VHlMdFIBN9.ylaAC7Ljy6c5iZ 5JKNWZ0XUkFRWNxNfLZk2NWPTOeVaxZmWoykL0LCOGchEzxpiPgTJxzpQyqs e9EOa4j2YjvMYqgso2AdYm8qkA1meGUvGBcUnr0RVEcDISJAjht8wSaTXRC0 r7Y7gcPySWAO8iLnrLg1s_GTBOmTMBCE1miIYgrgA.qP_LT9Aq4zQE2jc2A_ Dc7PImTol1pOiX8U2GEhoBw0NE9sQ4teNzHUXK1jc1Xxa1G4OIZZ1SgypEmQ jc1NM7hSfXSCO5qbWmYPBTGTDMxDCTmK_cPpQs6l1vOvgyfN.CFoiGQHAxz6 keTebeW4sNemPQ9yQmPDsrNPddm8iOdVQ9zK1axL2xhQZFD6ojojxVezX_i6 _tUI_iiJmmhjYXBc5WX.Ub.397pmc7H0En34ZXXPojK1_fWqrvPY.Z2Ht.Us aSMFYUNkS9ydaz7OOBq4O7bVfVm7DUunAxekpSz1TcJ8e4pwL1.JsG8mnzZ3 .1SSggw9jcrE_KPb_w.PfpIyUKf9raK2rJTDLnFFVvviiUqILP2keP.tDQcx Zb6sJM5se7OVg2pcoRA2v_mAl9qEZzAZ80QIN2rdhObHpoKWN27RTAK2uL3d 8IKeso361SAlg5Akv0JMX6r_w5bq2TPRGDy.jgkWMtI9jHLEqK6WUoPcF0Xp ZgSkoxR5RhIWdUtavdmhGBUtovtzst5LdgYjZb1xFrTR6xL8t4Zc13GbblJq lfNMxMm4Xwf4Rq0kA0xEDM_L6DsoRnNQrGd3O0iZw5HqVtTWTP6rfWr9_dUO I9lt7i7gVeNkZ6UVCWhGBa.nT41uljcDIxrV8mZiIqW0oUA-- Received: from [67.202.75.55] by web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:41:11 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhlICJhcGV4IHNlYWwiIHNwcmluZ3Mgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBiZSBiZWVmaWVyLiAgVGhleSB3b24ndCBoYXZlIGNlbnRyaWZ1Z2FsIGZvcmNlIHRvIG1haW50YWluIHByZXNzdXJlLiAgT1RPSCwgdGhlIHNwcmluZ3MgYW5kIHNlYWxzIGNvdWxkIGJlIG1hZGUgbGFyZ2VyLCBzaW5jZSB0aGV5IHdvbid0IGJlIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBjZW50cmlmdWdhbCBmb3JjZS4gIFNlYWxpbmcgdGhlIGNvcm5lcnMgc3RpbGwgbG9va3MgbGlrZSB0aGUgaGFyZCBwYXJ0LiAgRXNwZWNpYWxseSB3aXRoIHRoZSBjb3JuZXJzIGIBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.740 References: Message-ID: <1416523271.31197.YahooMailNeo@web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:41:11 -0800 Reply-To: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Rotary powerplant To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1885600119-156139856-1416523271=:31197" --1885600119-156139856-1416523271=:31197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The "apex seal" springs would have to be beefier. They won't have centrifugal force to maintain pressure. OTOH, the springs and seals could be made larger, since they won't be under the centrifugal force. Sealing the corners still looks like the hard part. Especially with the corners being so ill defined. I wonder how they accomplished that. On Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:33 PM, Richard Sohn wrote: It looks to me simply like an inside-out Wankel. The rotor has the inside shape of the rotor housing, and the rotor housing is the inside shape of a rotor. Everything else would be the same. Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: Ernest Christley Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Rotary powerplant The 13B's poor fuel burn, extremely hot exhaust and extremely loud exhaust were all caused in large part by the unburned fuel in the quench areas of the cylinder near the apex seals. It appears that this engine is using direct injection into a recess in the combustion chamber. The recess is practically spherical, minimizing heat transfer to the metal in the body of the engine. The burn occurs there, and then expands out into the larger chamber where there will be some fresh air not pushed into the combustion chamber that will help burn any remaining hydrocarbons and be expanded by the combustion heat as it waits for the exhaust port to come around. This design will still have the same inter-chamber sealing issues that the 13B has. It still has the same lubricating issues that the rotary has. But, both are minor issues compared to that of fuel burn and exhaust problems that are the bane of the Wankel. This could be very promising for experimental aircraft use if they started producing larger models (for generators perhaps). On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:56 PM, James R. Osborn wrote: Interesting: http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/ On Nov 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Jack Hilditch wrote: > >The Hartford Courant has a story this morning about a new rotary engine manufactured by a Connecticut company called LiquidPiston. The company was started in 2003 and has secured $21 million in development funds since then. Company president and founder Alec Shkolnik holds a doctorate from MIT. He and his physicist father Nikolay started the LiquidPiston company in 2003. The story (with videos) can be found here http://www.courant.com/business/hc-liquid-piston-bloomfield-new-engine-20141119-story.html > >Regards, > >Jack Hilditch >Email: wmjack@t3cs.net --1885600119-156139856-1416523271=:31197 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
The "apex seal" springs would have to be beefier.  They won't have centrifugal force to maintain pressure.  OTOH, the springs and seals could be made larger, since they won't be under the centrifugal force.  Sealing the corners still looks like the hard part.  Especially with the corners being so ill defined.  I wonder how they accomplished that.


On Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:33 PM, Richard Sohn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


It looks to me simply like an inside-out Wankel. The rotor has the inside shape of the rotor housing, and the rotor housing is the inside shape of a rotor. Everything else would be the same.
 
Richard Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Rotary powerplant
 
The 13B's poor fuel burn, extremely hot exhaust and extremely loud exhaust were all caused in large part by the unburned fuel in the quench areas of the cylinder near the apex seals.   It appears that this engine is using direct injection into a recess in the combustion chamber.  The recess is practically spherical, minimizing heat transfer to the metal in the body of the engine.  The burn occurs there, and then expands out into the larger chamber where there will be some fresh air not pushed into the combustion chamber that will help burn any remaining hydrocarbons and be expanded by the combustion heat as it waits for the exhaust port to come around.

This design will still have the same inter-chamber sealing issues that the 13B has.  It still has the same lubricating issues that the rotary has.  But, both are minor issues compared to that of fuel burn and exhaust problems that are the bane of the Wankel.  This could be very promising for experimental aircraft use if they started producing larger models (for generators perhaps).
 


On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:56 PM, James R. Osborn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Interesting:
 
http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/
 
On Nov 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Jack Hilditch <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 
The Hartford Courant has a story this morning about a new rotary engine manufactured by a Connecticut company called LiquidPiston. The company was started in 2003 and has secured $21 million in development funds since then. Company president and founder Alec Shkolnik holds a doctorate from MIT. He and his physicist father Nikolay started the LiquidPiston company in 2003. The story (with videos) can be found here http://www.courant.com/business/hc-liquid-piston-bloomfield-new-engine-20141119-story.html
 
Regards,
 
Jack Hilditch
 




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