X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Mark Steitle" Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.10) with ESMTPS id 7240895 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:16:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.172; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id rl12so1425863iec.3 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:16:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LubyWDTnzdczKyQa3QuBDgbDL9axX84C1diMpVlIOwU=; b=hgWYXA/uCAJ+uSbIveGuGoXU2+hu0ueaZjJo8mSR5JlFbwpwsLk+I8sYm6bWMBteHp tfdDJtwrffYu4tv6lvwGSOyJu5ThG955Q+UeDKHUQUzpdUpW64PTyrEiUP57cvyvu7SB Da7pOx6CFdMZ9EkvdkkXjsy2O7wUpGOPIAdYuxzUi614zbw4M+ZOi8obzhadRoHnUwdN AyI2ElLpn7QJ8pqPwuKJV+v/FqXlfIZ6PzpUwYd3tF8n+KRNmGCeu/vKg5JXYrBB7HM8 +XQ64ScW4CAnD6AVZwOV6sn3YthNFVNewXEhq3qM0pqR68c52D3fQb7A3W0ZAbXSwVCT c/JA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.103.2 with SMTP id k2mr355697ico.46.1414523779800; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.152.195 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:16:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:16:19 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: electric fuel selector valves To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf304353686c06e30506807ba6 --20cf304353686c06e30506807ba6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Unlike airplanes, trucks can pull over to the side of the road. Besides, we all know that trucks/busses/RV's never catch fire. ;-0 Personally, I would never use a plastic fuel valve in an airplane, but that's just where I draw the line. YMMV. OK, I've said it. I'll go back to lurking now. Mark On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Charlie England < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Actually, if they'll survive in a truck, I doubt that a plane could hurt > them (with proper installation). Some people are just paranoid about > flexible fuel lines that aren't A/N Stainless braided. > > On the subject of backup fuel switching: If you have a ganged mechanical > valve, why bother with the electric one? :-) > > Charlie > > On 10/28/2014 10:17 AM, Ernest Christley wrote: > > Other than physical damage, which should be handled by proper, > stress-free mounting, the only failure mode I see is the valve getting > stuck on one tank or the other. This can be handled by tee-ing into all > supply and return lines, and connecting them with a ganged mechanical > on-off valve. If the electric valve gets stuck, pull the mechanical ones > on to allow fuel to crossover. Basically, creating a Tee fitting into > whichever port is open. > > I'm actually working on this for a Corvair installation, but this forum > is the only one I've found where an idea can be discussed on its merits, > instead of its compliance with standard practice. > > > On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:33 AM, Mitchell Williams > wrote: > > > http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/Asset/42-159%20IS_41-revdd.pdf > > > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Stephen Izett < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > I stand corrected. I believe Charlie is correct. > Steve Izett > > > On 28 Oct 2014, at 6:47 am, Charlie England > wrote: > > On 10/27/2014 4:55 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: > > This is the type that I'm referring to: > > > http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/item/fuel-selector-valves/light-truck-6-port-motor-driven-valve/42-302 > > > On Monday, October 27, 2014 5:50 PM, Ernest Christley > wrote: > > > Is anyone familiar with electric fuel selector valves as used in > automotive applications. I'm trying to figure out how they operate. Do > they select one line when power is applied to a solenoid type plunger, and > then the other line is selected when power isn't applied? Or does a pulse > of power switch them back and forth? If they maintain the currently > selected tank when power is absent, it seems to me that this could remove > fuel lines and a leak prone selector valve from a lot of cockpits. > Furthermore, the 6 port models look like they could be plumbed easily to > handle return lines. > > > > The ones I've seen actually use a motor to move the valve (think screw > jack), so they will remain in last position. Reading your linked item > indicates that it works the same way. > > 'Traditional' engine guys have avoided them in the past because they're > plastic and they require power (and they are an automotive product, so they > can't be reliable ;-) ). They are probably worth considering, but I'm > seriously looking at switching to in-tank turbine pumps with automotive > style PWM control; no return line needed. Then tank selection would be with > a switch on the panel instead of a valve. Downside is that for total > redundancy, I'd need 2 pumps in each tank. They are dirt cheap (<$20 each), > but controllers are around $75 ea and switching gets pretty elaborate if > there are more than 2 tanks. > > Charlie > > > > > > -- > Mitchell Williams OKPE, ATP/CFI/A&P/IA www.chickashawings.com > *of shadow and ash* http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009KZGVQS > > > > > --20cf304353686c06e30506807ba6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Unlike airplanes, trucks can pull over to the side of= the road.=A0 Besides, we all know that trucks/busses/RV's never catch = fire.=A0 ;-0=A0
Personally, I would never use a plastic fuel valv= e in an airplane, but that's just where I draw the line.=A0 YMMV.=A0
=A0
OK, I've said it.=A0 I'll go back to lurking= now.=A0
=A0
Mark=A0

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Charli= e England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=
=20 =20 =20
Actually, if they'll survive in a truck, I doubt that a plane could hurt them (with proper installation). Some people are just paranoid about flexible fuel lines that aren't A/N Stainless braided.

On the subject of backup fuel switching: If you have a ganged mechanical valve, why bother with the electric one? :-)

Charlie

On 10/28/2014 10:17 AM, Ernest Christley wrote:
Other than physical damage, which should be handled by proper, stress-free mounting, the only failure mode I see is the valve getting stuck on one tank or the other.=A0 This can be handled by tee-ing into all supply and return lines, and connecting them with a ganged mechanical on-off valve.=A0 If the electric valve gets stuck, pull the mechanical ones on to allow fuel to crossover.=A0 Basically, creating a Tee fitting into whichever port is open.=A0

I'm actually working on this fo= r a Corvair installation, but this forum is the only one I've found where an idea can be discussed on its merits, instead of its compliance with standard practice.


On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:33 AM, Mitchell Williams <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:



On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Stephen Izett = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I stand corrected. I believe Charlie is correct.
Steve Izett


On 28 Oct 2014, at 6:47 am, Charlie England <flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net> wrote:

On 10/27/2014 4:55 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
This is the type that I'm referring to:



On Monday, October 27, 2014 5:50 PM, Ernest Christley = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Is anyone familiar with electric fuel selector valves as used in automotive applications.=A0 I'm trying to figure out how they operate.=A0 Do they select one line when power is applied to a solenoid type plunger, and then the other line is selected when power isn't applied?=A0 Or does a pulse of power switch them back and forth?=A0 If they maintain the currently selected tank when power is absent, it seems to me that this could remove fuel lines and a leak prone selector valve from a lot of cockpits.=A0 Furthermore, the 6 port models look like they could be plumbed easily to handle return lines.



The ones I've seen actually use a motor to move the valve (think screw jack), so they will remain in last position. Reading your linked item indicates that it works the same way.

'Traditional' engine guys= have avoided them in the past because they're plastic and they require power (and they are an automotive product, so they can't be reliable ;-)=A0= ). They are probably worth considering, but I'm seriousl= y looking at switching to in-tank turbine pumps with automotive style PWM control; no return line needed. Then tank selection would be with a switch on the panel instead of a valve. Downside is that for total redundancy, I'd need 2 pumps in each tank. They are dirt cheap (<$20 each), but controllers are around $75 ea and switching gets pretty elaborate if there are more than 2 tanks.

Charlie




--
Mitchell Williams OKPE, ATP/CFI/A&P/IA =A0 www.= chickashawings.com
of shadow and ash http://www.amaz= on.com/dp/B009KZGVQS





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